Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

On Taking From the Top to Broaden the Base

Roll stones down on our head!
You squat old pyramid,
Your last good avalanche
Was long since slid.

Your top has sunk too low,
Your base has spread too wide,
For you to roll one stone
Down if you tried.

But even at the word
A pebble hit the roof,
Another shot through glass,
Demanding proof.

Before their panic hands
Were fighting for the latch,
The mud came in one cold
Unleavened batch.

And none was lift to prate
Of an old mountain's case
That still took from its top
To broaden its base.

--Robert Frost

ranger

[aharmer]

After a _very_ short while, no one improves by just sharpening.

They only get worse and worse.

You only improve your AT, TR, and AN rowing by improving your UT rowing.

ranger

I happen to agree with your theory on this 100%. Don't know if others around here do, but in my opinion it is solid. You can only reach a higher peak if you first build the base of your pyramid larger.

The only problem with this theory as it relates to you, is that you don't do the required work to build the base of that pyramid. Rather, I should say you don't do the required base work to set the foundation for these silly claims you feel obligated to hang onto. Rowing with breaks where you occasionally see 1:48/22 or whatever you claim isn't the same as repeated, continuous pieces of 1:48/22 for hours at a time. Your RWB's routines where you occasionally see 1:48 end up being about 2:00 pace overall. Exactly what the average 6:40 erger does for their base pieces of an hour or more. When you can do these nonstop pieces of an hour or more at 1:48/22 then you'll be ready for your 6:16. Until then it's just smoke and mirrors and a pipe dream.

You have to know this, it's simply not possible for somebody to be so dense. Why not quit with the attention seeking troll bit and just get down to the business of trying to capture that WR you've been chasing for 5 years. Start doing some real workouts (such as the 8x500 you claim to be planning but will not show) that will tell you where you're at. This has to be boring even for you, the subject of the thread. How many thousands of times can you cut and paste the same bullshit that nobody including you believes? Oh well, that's my rant for the day, this whole thing ends at BIRC so I'll just hang on to see the bloody mess.

[ranger]

Rowing with breaks...you...

I no longer do rowing with breaks (i.e., rowing at low rates (16-20 spm) and high stroking powers (14-16 SPI) over short distances). It served its purposes. By doing this training, I learned to use my legs at low drag, which has increased my stroking power by 2 SPI. I quit doing RWBs about six months ago.

I now just row at my 2K stroking power (12.5 SPI) at moderate rates (21-27) spm)--and high(er) (28-36 spm).

ranger

[ranger]

I happen to agree with your theory on this 100%. Don't know if others around here do, but in my opinion it is solid. You can only reach a higher peak if you first build the base of your pyramid larger.

O.K.

But the question is: How would you do it, if you were me.

You seem disgruntled for some reason, both because I am not doing what you would like me to do and because I succeeded by doing something else (RWBs).

As it turns out, in recent times, besides me, no male WR-holder, 40-70, has ever built a bigger base and, by doing so, improved their 2K.

Why?

And if all of those parallel to me have failed using the training methods you are advocating, and if I have already succeeded doing something else, why would you recommend that I abandon my methods, which have already succeeded, and adopt the methods you are advocating, which have, forever, only failed?

ranger

[KevJGK]

....this whole thing ends at BIRC so I'll just hang on to see the bloody mess.

Wrong!

The thing is it won’t end at BIRC. The guy driving this thread is extremely intelligent and will find a way to continue the saga and maintain your interest. I expected the thread to die many times over the last few years when one prediction after another bit the dust but ranger just keeps the script going right on along. He knows exactly what he is doing and it has nothing at all to do with erging.

Don’t think you can walk away from it either. We are all addicted and there is absolutely nothing any of us can do to escape.

We are all doomed.

[snowleopard]

The guy driving this thread is extremely intelligent

Well he's attended more than one school but I think you've overcooked it a bit there.

[mikvan52]

As it turns out, in recent times, besides me, no male WR-holder, 40-70, has ever (snip) improved their 2K.

Why?

"Why?"
Because this statement is simply not true.

Look in the rankings for evidence.

[ranger]

The guy driving this thread is extremely intelligent

Nah.

It's just that the nay-sayers like you who comment regularly on this thread are astonishingly dumb, and that makes me look good.

Actually, I am just another joe, haulin' a handle, trying to spin a wheel (haulin' an oar, trying to catch some water).



ranger

[ranger]

As it turns out, in recent times, besides me, no male WR-holder, 40-70, has ever (snip) improved their 2K.

Why?

"Why?"
Because this statement is simply not true.

Look in the rankings for evidence.

What isn't true about it?

At WIRC 2003, I pulled 6:30 and set the 50s lwt WR, haulin' anchor at max drag. After rowing strapless at 20 spm for six months, working on technique, in my USIRT trial at the end of October 2003, I dropped the drag to 170 df. and pulled a lwt 6:29. Then, continuing this work on technique, at the end of November 2003, at BIRC 2003, I pulled a lwt 6:28.

In recent times, no other male erger, 40-70, has ever had multiple WR rows. After setting a WR, they have only gotten worse.

After EIRC 2003, I decided to spend time learning to row OTW and, in my erging, learning to row with an OTW stroke at a minimal drag (e.g., 120 df.).

To do this, I rowed at low rates (16-20 spm) and high stroking power (14-16 SPI) for five years, improving my stroking power by 2 SPI, learning to be fast with my legs (among a zillion other things!).

Along the way, in 2006, when I was 55, I pulled a sub-6:30 2K without even preparing for it.

Then I reduced the stroking power (to 11-13 SPI) and slowly raised the rate back to moderate levels (22-30 spm) for a year or so.

Then I lowered the drag to 120 df. and continued this rowing at moderate rates for six months or so.

Now I am again sharpening to race.

I now pull 12.5 SPI at race rates and 120 df., and in doing so, am training at 1:32 @ 36 spm (12.5 SPI), 2.5-to-1 ratio, in my sharpening.

It will be interesting to see how this bears on my 2K.

At BIRC 2010, I think I'll pull 6:20, 1:35 @ 32 spm (12.5 SPI).

After BIRC 2010, I will continue to sharpen until WIRC 2011.

At WIRC 2011, I think I will row 6:16, 1:34 @ 33 spm (12.5 SPI).

ranger

[bellboy]

....this whole thing ends at BIRC so I'll just hang on to see the bloody mess.

Wrong!

The thing is it won’t end at BIRC. The guy driving this thread is extremely intelligent and will find a way to continue the saga and maintain your interest. I expected the thread to die many times over the last few years when one prediction after another bit the dust but ranger just keeps the script going right on along. He knows exactly what he is doing and it has nothing at all to do with erging.

Don’t think you can walk away from it either. We are all addicted and there is absolutely nothing any of us can do to escape.

We are all doomed.

So very true. I used to tune in twice a week. I do it everyday now. nothing changes.He never posts meaningfull info. He just tilts at windmills everyday.im a troll junkie and i cant find a cure.

[ranger]

im a troll junkie and i cant find a cure.

Nah.

That stuff is just a symptom of deeper difficulties.

If you want a cure, why not try rowing?

It's a great sport.

You should give it a go.



ranger

[ranger]

Just saw this one on the sports show "Around the Horn."

It might be relevant to this thread.

"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine."



Will the Giants beat the Phillies and end it, 4-to-1--against Halliday?

That would be a pretty impressive performance (for a bunch of pigs, trying to fly).

Speed of lightning, Sound of thunder.

UNDERDOG!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XRil07h5uE

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

In recent times, no other erger, 40-70, has ever had multiple WR rows.

Not even true if you restrict things to 2k. See Lisa Schlenker (still holder at 30-39 and 40-49 WLW), Joan van Blom (holder at 50-54 and 55-59 WLW) and Ingrid Peterson (holder at 60-64 and 55-69 WLW). Depending on your definition of "recent times," I'm pretty sure Paul Hendershott held what would have been the 55-59 MHW record at the time back in 2002 had the category existed; he's the current 60-64 holder.

If you factor in other distances, there are scads of people 40-70 with multiple WR rows across different ranked events. Some of them probably bogus, c.f. Rod Freed and Kent Timm. Some of them absolutely legit, c.f. the great Anna Bailey or T. J. Osterling or Stan Vegar or Nik Fleming. And there are people (me for one) with multiple WR rows in the same event, albeit not the 2k. Some of the latter (me for one) have actually improved the WR in that event, substantially. For example, I took over a second off the 50-59 MHW 1k record the first time I broke it and 4 seconds off the second time I did it.

[ranger]

In recent times, no other erger, 40-70, has ever had multiple WR rows.

Not even true if you restrict things to 2k. See Lisa Schlenker (still holder at 30-39 and 40-49 WLW), Joan van Blom (holder at 50-54 and 55-59 WLW) and Ingrid Peterson (holder at 60-64 and 55-69 WLW). Depending on your definition of "recent times," I'm pretty sure Paul Hendershott held what would have been the 55-59 MHW record at the time back in 2002 had the category existed; he's the current 60-64 holder.

If you factor in other distances, there are scads of people 40-70 with multiple WR rows across different ranked events. Some of them probably bogus, c.f. Rod Freed and Kent Timm. Some of them absolutely legit, c.f. the great Anna Bailey or T. J. Osterling or Stan Vegar or Nik Fleming. And there are people (me for one) with multiple WR rows in the same event, albeit not the 2k. Some of the latter (me for one) have actually improved the WR in that event, substantially. For example, I took over a second off the 50-59 MHW 1k record the first time I broke it and 4 seconds off the second time I did it.

Stretch as much as you want, Nav.

But it is pretty striking, no?

Other than me, in recent times, no other male 2K WR-holder, 40-70, has ever gotten any better over 2K.

Now I am positioning myself to pull 14 seconds better over 2K than I pulled in my first WR row eight years ago.

If I do, I will break the 60s lwt WR by 26 seconds (and in the process, the 55s lwt WR, the 55s hwt WR, the 60s hwt WR, and the 40s lwt WR).

Well.

That would be something, no?

Unprecedented.

ranger

[lancs]

....[yap, yap, yap]because I succeeded by doing something else (RWBs)[/yap]

You haven't succeded.

You haven't 'gotten better'.

You've got slower as everyone else does your age.

Thought of some good excuses for BIRC yet? It is a bit colder here this week so there may yet be opportunity for you to use a weather-related excuse for your DNS/DNF/7:04/6:44...