Ranger's training thread

[sander]

Lord.

Steering is a no-brainer, folks.


ranger

Yes and no. I have no experience with head races in the US, but I've rowed Skiffhead a number of times. See http://www.skiffhead.nl/index.php?id=51 for a map of the course.

Training the course often, memorizing landmarks, using peripheral vision, counting numbers of strokes at race speed, gives you a seventh sense if you're where you're supposed to be. It's essential, so you can focus other aspects of the race.

Once you've done that, it's simple.

[ranger]

In my daily rides, with a HR of 135 spm, I ride along at 18-19 MPH on the Kurt Kinetic.

That's a change from the claimed 22.5mph you were doing on your toy trainer. Your HR won't be a constant 135 because, as always, it will drift if your power output is kept constant. But we know, as always, you won't let the truth overshadow the BS.

At 135 bpm, my heart rate doesn't really drift much at all.

At higher wattages, it does, though.

Sure, the Kurt Kinetic is quite a bit stiffer than the Cyclops.

It is set for an uphill grade, etc.

No, I don't do 22.5 mph on the Kurt Kinetic.

But I do close to 20 mph, which when adjusted for the grade, is just about exactly what I reported about my riding on the road.

When I am just cross-training (not racing), I ride along at about 20 mph.

ranger

[jliddil]

Well to be anal, your HR does not reach "steady" state until after 25 or so minutes. Somebody here keeps saying their HR rate reach X beats/minute and stays there and suggests it is instantaneous. Even you HR is not "steady" state. Again to be totally anal I want to see a match data set of wattage and HR measured at exactly the same time points. So for X watts you can prove that your HR is always Y beats. The graph shows that your power is not "steady" state. It goes up and down which allows your HR to adjust. And to again be an anal scientist this is an N=1 experiment on N=1 subject under non controlled conditions. How good is the wattage and HT instrumentation? What is the precision and accuracy and resolution. Ok enough

I'm not proposing this as a scientific paper. Sorry to mislead you. I encourage others to show power and hr plots, but no one seems to care (or they are just not capable or interested). The old PM3 used to create files with this data as I recall (with an old serial port adaptor or something). I'd imagine the PM4 is even better. It is very valuable training data for the athlete.

My powermeter is an SRM Professional. You can buy one here: Save your pennies.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/road- ... n=Datafeed

Oh a mere toy .

So I stand corrected on the instrumentation. And I do care for real world data like this. The PM4 still stinks for data resolution. With Rowpro I can get per stroke data. I have also done some basic development with the Performance Monitor Interface. But I usually depend on Rowpro for data and then load it into Sporttracks since the Rowpro Crystal Reports stink. Also have a Polar RS400 so I can get per second beat data and use the polar software. But this is all jsut geek stuff compared to where you are at. I don't necessarily "train". I workout to keep fit but based on my background I have an interest in exercise physiology and geeky science stuff. And I can appreciate cool toys

[ranger]

Yes and no. I have no experience with head races in the US, but I've rowed Skiffhead a number of times. See http://www.skiffhead.nl/index.php?id=51 for a map of the course.

Training the course often, memorizing landmarks, using peripheral vision, counting numbers of strokes at race speed, gives you a seventh sense if you're where you're supposed to be. It's essential, so you can focus other aspects of the race.

Once you've done that, it's simple.

Oh, sure, you can always be better prepared, and I am sure some courses are _very_ hard to steer.

That wasn't my problem on Sunday.

I had never practiced steering at race speeds at all.

In fact, I had never practiced steering much at all.

The Head of the Grand wouldn't be a hard course to steer if you knew how to steer.

It is just one big gradual bend around to starboard in the middle of the race.

ranger

[mrfit]

In my daily rides, with a HR of 135 spm, I ride along at 18-19 MPH on the Kurt Kinetic.

That's a change from the claimed 22.5mph you were doing on your toy trainer. Your HR won't be a constant 135 because, as always, it will drift if your power output is kept constant. But we know, as always, you won't let the truth overshadow the BS.

At 135 bpm, my heart rate doesn't really drift much at all.

At higher wattages, it does, though.

Sure, the Kurt Kinetic is quite a bit stiffer than the Cyclops.

It is set for an uphill grade, etc.

No, I don't do 22.5 mph on the Kurt Kinetic.

But I do close to 20 mph, which when adjusted for the grade, is just about exactly what I reported about my riding on the road.

When I am just cross-training (not racing), I ride along at about 20 mph.

ranger

Michgan is pretty flat isn't it? I would think your KK speed compared to real world Michigan would be about 1mph less in basic conditions. I guess you could ride and find out!

[mrfit]

Well to be anal, your HR does not reach "steady" state until after 25 or so minutes. Somebody here keeps saying their HR rate reach X beats/minute and stays there and suggests it is instantaneous. Even you HR is not "steady" state. Again to be totally anal I want to see a match data set of wattage and HR measured at exactly the same time points. So for X watts you can prove that your HR is always Y beats. The graph shows that your power is not "steady" state. It goes up and down which allows your HR to adjust. And to again be an anal scientist this is an N=1 experiment on N=1 subject under non controlled conditions. How good is the wattage and HT instrumentation? What is the precision and accuracy and resolution. Ok enough

I'm not proposing this as a scientific paper. Sorry to mislead you. I encourage others to show power and hr plots, but no one seems to care (or they are just not capable or interested). The old PM3 used to create files with this data as I recall (with an old serial port adaptor or something). I'd imagine the PM4 is even better. It is very valuable training data for the athlete.

My powermeter is an SRM Professional. You can buy one here: Save your pennies.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/road- ... n=Datafeed

Oh a mere toy .

So I stand corrected on the instrumentation. And I do care for real world data like this. The PM4 still stinks for data resolution. With Rowpro I can get per stroke data. I have also done some basic development with the Performance Monitor Interface. But I usually depend on Rowpro for data and then load it into Sporttracks since the Rowpro Crystal Reports stink. Also have a Polar RS400 so I can get per second beat data and use the polar software. But this is all jsut geek stuff compared to where you are at. I don't necessarily "train". I workout to keep fit but based on my background I have an interest in exercise physiology and geeky science stuff. And I can appreciate cool toys

I used to hook up my PM3 to the computer and each stroke would plot on my PC with watts and HR just streaming out in excellent resolution. They do not make them like they used to?

[snowleopard]

I used to hook up my PM3 to the computer and each stroke would plot on my PC with watts and HR just streaming out in excellent resolution. They do not make them like they used to?

Never an "out of box" capability of the PM3 (or PM4). That would require custom software using something like the Performance Monitor Interface API/control.

[mrfit]

http://img220.imageshack.us/f/annarbor.png/

Michigan, yeah, pretty flat. A friend of mine from Michigan used to claim he rode "double centuries" which seemed incredible to me until I see you hardly have to climb a hill. Where I ride, a double century in and around the mountains would have over 10,000 feet of climbing in it. Seems no matter how you take it, hills drain you over time even in a zero sum ride.

http://img130.imageshack.us/f/84217864.png/

[mrfit]

I used to hook up my PM3 to the computer and each stroke would plot on my PC with watts and HR just streaming out in excellent resolution. They do not make them like they used to?

Never an "out of box" capability of the PM3 (or PM4). That would require custom software using something like the Performance Monitor Interface API/control.

Sorry, it was a PM2+ monitor.

Its data port would transfer to the serial port on the PC. The software came with the Model C. This was Dec 2000 when I bought my machine. It would graph real time HR and Power and/or could recreate the LCD screen on your PC monitor.

Edit:

I found the help guide to the e-row software. The feature was called Power Plot. You can read about it on page 4.

http://www.concept2.com/us/support/manu ... 0_Help.doc

And do not get me started on how much I loved the Model A and the input you got from the thrilling sound and a swinging needle from a bike odometer. It was so dangerous too. Grew hair on your chest, it did.

[BrianStaff]

I am more interested in rowing a long way, ....

Well at least half-way

[Citroen]

I used to hook up my PM3 to the computer and each stroke would plot on my PC with watts and HR just streaming out in excellent resolution. They do not make them like they used to?

Never an "out of box" capability of the PM3 (or PM4). That would require custom software using something like the Performance Monitor Interface API/control.

For PM2+ there's
http://www.concept2.com/us/service/soft ... nloads.asp

For PM3/PM4 there's
http://www.concept2.com/us/service/soft ... efault.asp
http://www.concept2.com/us/service/soft ... /rowit.asp

PMI is easy to use
http://www.concept2.com/us/service/soft ... ty/pmi.asp

I wrote some samples with PMI and MS Excel that you can download from
http://rowing.dyn-o-saur.com/PMI/

[Citroen]

There's even a rudimentary application (written in Python) for Linux
http://www.vishalpatel.net/projects/rowmetrics/

[Byron Drachman]

Well to be anal, your HR does not reach "steady" state until after 25 or so minutes. Somebody here keeps saying their HR rate reach X beats/minute and stays there and suggests it is instantaneous. Even you HR is not "steady" state. Again to be totally anal I want to see a match data set of wattage and HR measured at exactly the same time points. So for X watts you can prove that your HR is always Y beats. The graph shows that your power is not "steady" state. It goes up and down which allows your HR to adjust. And to again be an anal scientist this is an N=1 experiment on N=1 subject under non controlled conditions. How good is the wattage and HT instrumentation? What is the precision and accuracy and resolution. Ok enough

I'm not proposing this as a scientific paper. Sorry to mislead you. I encourage others to show power and hr plots, but no one seems to care (or they are just not capable or interested). The old PM3 used to create files with this data as I recall (with an old serial port adaptor or something). I'd imagine the PM4 is even better. It is very valuable training data for the athlete.

My powermeter is an SRM Professional. You can buy one here: Save your pennies.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/road- ... n=Datafeed

Hi MrFit,

Holy Toledo! About forty years ago, before there was much interest in measuring watts in cycling, I made an ergometer in my basement. I took a bike no longer usable for racing, mounted it on a wooden frame, had a v-belt from the rear wheel (clincher rim, no tire obviously) driving a generator from a car. Yes, a generator, not an alternator. The generator lit some light bulbs. I measured the power produced using an antique but very accurate watt-meter. I had a chart relating watts vs speed on a traditional bike. The chart was made by an engineer at a lab in California. I could test cyclists in my basement and usually predict within a few seconds of their actual results on the outdoor track. So my testing confirmed the chart to within reasonable accuracy.

Ah, those were the days. Ignoring the cost of the bike, the total cost of my ergometer was probably between ten and twenty dollars. I got the watt meter at the MSU salvage yard, the generator was a freebie from a mechanic at a nearby gas station, and the v-belt cost a few dollars at the hardware store. I wish I had taken some photos of it. Rube Goldberg or Heath Robinson would have been sick with envy.

[BrianStaff]

Then I'll be back out OTW.

Tell us why you chose NOT to practice on the river on Friday & Saturday?

You did post on a number of occasions that you were going to Lansing to practice...but then Did Not Show

Life and traffic.

You didn't mention this at the time. In fact, you posted that you were going to Lansing

Saturday, there was a home MSU football game against Illinois.

Poor excuse!

Friday, I had to work.

You are such a liar. It was fall break remember?

You originally posted that Thursday was also fall break and you were going to the river, but when you decided not to go, you erased that statement and then said you had to work.

Do you lie to your family like this?

Do you lie to your peers like this?

Do you lie to your students like this?

Do you lie to your friends like this? Strike that...you don't have any friends.

[mrfit]

Well to be anal, your HR does not reach "steady" state until after 25 or so minutes. Somebody here keeps saying their HR rate reach X beats/minute and stays there and suggests it is instantaneous. Even you HR is not "steady" state. Again to be totally anal I want to see a match data set of wattage and HR measured at exactly the same time points. So for X watts you can prove that your HR is always Y beats. The graph shows that your power is not "steady" state. It goes up and down which allows your HR to adjust. And to again be an anal scientist this is an N=1 experiment on N=1 subject under non controlled conditions. How good is the wattage and HT instrumentation? What is the precision and accuracy and resolution. Ok enough

I'm not proposing this as a scientific paper. Sorry to mislead you. I encourage others to show power and hr plots, but no one seems to care (or they are just not capable or interested). The old PM3 used to create files with this data as I recall (with an old serial port adaptor or something). I'd imagine the PM4 is even better. It is very valuable training data for the athlete.

My powermeter is an SRM Professional. You can buy one here: Save your pennies.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/road- ... n=Datafeed

Hi MrFit,

Holy Toledo! About forty years ago, before there was much interest in measuring watts in cycling, I made an ergometer in my basement. I took a bike no longer usable for racing, mounted it on a wooden frame, had a v-belt from the rear wheel (clincher rim, no tire obviously) driving a generator from a car. Yes, a generator, not an alternator. The generator lit some light bulbs. I measured the power produced using an antique but very accurate watt-meter. I had a chart relating watts vs speed on a traditional bike. The chart was made by an engineer at a lab in California. I could test cyclists in my basement and usually predict within a few seconds of their actual results on the outdoor track. So my testing confirmed the chart to within reasonable accuracy.

Ah, those were the days. Ignoring the cost of the bike, the total cost of my ergometer was probably between ten and twenty dollars. I got the watt meter at the MSU salvage yard, the generator was a freebie from a mechanic at a nearby gas station, and the v-belt cost a few dollars at the hardware store. I wish I had taken some photos of it. Rube Goldberg or Heath Robinson would have been sick with envy.

I guess 40 years ago people were just too stunned seeing Merkcx race to think watts. You are "the man" in my circle.