Ranger's training thread

[whp4]

I'll be racing a lot--and doing 2K predictors.

The only 2K predictors you do consist of you saying "If ..." and "I think..." usually followed by your imagined relationship between a number of pieces and paces you haven't done and most likely will never attempt!

[mrfit]

Today ends the first training cycle on an easy note. 42 days. 51 hours of training (4.6 hours short of goal). 8 hard days. 2 races mostly for fun. 1 chesty cold in late Sept. When I started 6 weeks ago, my watts over an hour with an HR riding at 135 were 165. I ended today with a similar workout (HR 135) with 18 more watts (183).

5 more blocks. Block 2 starts tomorrow and ends Nov 30th. I think I've set myself up to be as powerful as I've ever been by then.

http://img412.imageshack.us/i/oct192010.png/

[whp4]

What is relevant is rowing easily, 1:48 @ 21 spm (13 SPI), with a UT2 heart rate (for me, 145 bpm).

Which is why I can't understand why you can't row 30 mins at this UT2 pace and rate? Might it be that it's because your UT2 pace isn't 1:48? I repeat, you can't row 30 mins at your 'UT2' pace, therefore it isn't your UT2 pace.

You don't know what I can do or not.

So why speculate?

If I row 90min @ 1:48 and a UT2 heart rate, I'll post the result.

That will demonstrate that 1:48 is indeed my UT2 pace.

Until then, your claims that 1:48 is your UT2 pace are worth your lifetime winnings rowing OTW: a big fat 0 and neither has much hope of improving!

[KevJGK]

Today ends the first training cycle on an easy note. 42 days. 51 hours of training (4.6 hours short of goal). 8 hard days. 2 races mostly for fun. 1 chesty cold in late Sept. When I started 6 weeks ago, my watts over an hour with an HR riding at 135 were 165. I ended today with a similar workout (HR 135) with 18 more watts (183).

5 more blocks. Block 2 starts tomorrow and ends Nov 30th. I think I've set myself up to be as powerful as I've ever been by then.
http://img412.imageshack.us/i/oct192010.png/

Sounds like you have some good structured training on the go.

Best of luck with it.

[ranger]

Today ends the first training cycle on an easy note. 42 days. 51 hours of training (4.6 hours short of goal). 8 hard days. 2 races mostly for fun. 1 chesty cold in late Sept. When I started 6 weeks ago, my watts over an hour with an HR riding at 135 were 165. I ended today with a similar workout (HR 135) with 18 more watts (183).

5 more blocks. Block 2 starts tomorrow and ends Nov 30th. I think I've set myself up to be as powerful as I've ever been by then.

http://img412.imageshack.us/i/oct192010.png/

Yes.

In my daily rides, with a HR of 135 spm, I ride along at 18-19 MPH on the Kurt Kinetic.

ranger

[ranger]

Until then, your claims that 1:48 is your UT2 pace are worth your lifetime winnings rowing OTW: a big fat 0 and neither has much hope of improving!

On the contrary, both have great promise.

If your fitness is maximal, you don't improve your UT2 score, or OTW rowing, by rowing badly over long distances.

You improve them by rowing well.

You "drill" on technique.

But the primary goal of all training plans for rowing is to improve your fitness.

They have nothing to say about technique.

ranger

[ranger]

So, show me a continuous 30 min segment at 13 SPI that's part of a longer workout.

If your fitness is maximal and you are working on technique, sure, you should naturally do 30min at some point in your UT2 rowing.

That's entirely different from doing a 30min "piece," though.

A 30min trial is done at AT, not UT2, and is a test of your fitness, not your technique.

And any 55s/60s lwt who can do 30min, 1:48 @ 21 spm, at UT2, would be able to row about a 6:20 2K, perhaps faster, somewhere in the range of 20 seconds under the lwt 55s and 60s WR, so this is a pretty stiff goal that might not be achieved immediately, but only in time.

Really, I keep saying these things, but I don't think you are getting it.

In order to get faster than I have already been, both OTW and OTErg, I don't need to improve my fitness.

I need to improve my technique.

My fitness is maximal.

It has been maximal for almost a decade now.

It _can't_ be improved.

Sure, if your fitness is maximal, you can do hard 30min rows to sharpen, and everyone would probably benefit from doing this at some point. But if your fitness is maximal, this sharpening doesn't make you a whit better. It just makes you sharp(er), and there are many ways to get sharp. No need to do it with 30min trials. In fact, I don't think I have ever done a 30min trial. If I am going to do hard distance rows in order to try to get sharp, I usually do 60min or 10K or 5/6K, rather than 30min.

In training, the issue is to get fast and then get sharp.

The point of training is not to "prove" what you can do for 2K.

ranger

[snowleopard]

Really, I keep saying these things, but I don't think you are getting it.

No, I get it.

You claim that your UT2 pace is 1:48. This means that while rowing at 1:48 pace you can maintain a UT2 HR for the duration of a UT2 workout.

I am not asking you to do a 30 minute trial. I am asking you to demonstrate that your UT2 pace is indeed 1:48. For you to establish that (in the absence of lactate testing) you must have rowed continuously for somewhat more than 30 minutes at your UT2 pace without exceeding your UT2 HR.

Therefore, there must be a number of workouts stored in your PM4 that demonstrate this fact. So please recall one and show the log here.

(Incidentally, when you row around 6:50+/- at BIRC you will demonstrate to the world that 1:48+ is in fact your top end AT )

[ranger]

I am not asking you to do a 30 minute trial. I am asking you to demonstrate that your UT2 pace is indeed 1:48

The proof is in the pudding.

And the pudding is cooking up just fine.

It will soon be done.

ranger

[ranger]

1:48+ is in fact your top end AT

No, rowing well (12-13 SPI) at low drag (120 df.), as I do now, 1:39 is top-end AT.

Near the end of my sharpening this year, I will do 4 x 2K, 1:38 @ 30 spm (but that will be a little ways down the line from here).

In my sharpening, I'll start with shorter (and faster) intervals, and then work up to 2K.

As with my UT work, the point of this sharpening will not be pace but holding my technique together--completely, on every stroke.

The point of this sharpening will not be to demonstrate my fitness but to practice my technique.

OTErg, I now row perfectly for a lightweight of any age: 13 SPI.

My fitness is maximal.

Now, I will try to put the two together in a 2K race.

ranger

[Citroen]

In my daily rides, with a HR of 135 spm, I ride along at 18-19 MPH on the Kurt Kinetic.

That's a change from the claimed 22.5mph you were doing on your toy trainer. Your HR won't be a constant 135 because, as always, it will drift if your power output is kept constant. But we know, as always, you won't let the truth overshadow the BS.

[mrfit]

In my daily rides, with a HR of 135 spm, I ride along at 18-19 MPH on the Kurt Kinetic.

That's a change from the claimed 22.5mph you were doing on your toy trainer. Your HR won't be a constant 135 because, as always, it will drift if your power output is kept constant. But we know, as always, you won't let the truth overshadow the BS.

Careful...

For 60-90 minutes at constant power, as long as I am more than 60 watts under threshold power, I do not have drift.

Here's 90 minutes of driftless riding. At power over 240watts, my HR will definitely drift. (and relatedly, at HR over 75% steady, my power will drop in time, perhaps starting at an hour).

http://img834.imageshack.us/i/powerandhroct12.jpg/

[jliddil]

In my daily rides, with a HR of 135 spm, I ride along at 18-19 MPH on the Kurt Kinetic.

That's a change from the claimed 22.5mph you were doing on your toy trainer. Your HR won't be a constant 135 because, as always, it will drift if your power output is kept constant. But we know, as always, you won't let the truth overshadow the BS.

Careful...

For 60-90 minutes at constant power, as long as I am more than 60 watts under threshold power, I do not have drift.

Here's 90 minutes of driftless riding. At power over 240watts, my HR will definitely drift. (and relatedly, at HR over 75% steady, my power will drop in time, perhaps starting at an hour).

http://img834.imageshack.us/i/powerandhroct12.jpg/

Well to be anal, your HR does not reach "steady" state until after 25 or so minutes. Somebody here keeps saying their HR rate reach X beats/minute and stays there and suggests it is instantaneous. Even you HR is not "steady" state. Again to be totally anal I want to see a match data set of wattage and HR measured at exactly the same time points. So for X watts you can prove that your HR is always Y beats. The graph shows that your power is not "steady" state. It goes up and down which allows your HR to adjust. And to again be an anal scientist this is an N=1 experiment on N=1 subject under non controlled conditions. How good is the wattage and HT instrumentation? What is the precision and accuracy and resolution. Ok enough

[mrfit]

Well to be anal, your HR does not reach "steady" state until after 25 or so minutes. Somebody here keeps saying their HR rate reach X beats/minute and stays there and suggests it is instantaneous. Even you HR is not "steady" state. Again to be totally anal I want to see a match data set of wattage and HR measured at exactly the same time points. So for X watts you can prove that your HR is always Y beats. The graph shows that your power is not "steady" state. It goes up and down which allows your HR to adjust. And to again be an anal scientist this is an N=1 experiment on N=1 subject under non controlled conditions. How good is the wattage and HT instrumentation? What is the precision and accuracy and resolution. Ok enough

I'm not proposing this as a scientific paper. Sorry to mislead you. I encourage others to show power and hr plots, but no one seems to care (or they are just not capable or interested). The old PM3 used to create files with this data as I recall (with an old serial port adaptor or something). I'd imagine the PM4 is even better. It is very valuable training data for the athlete.

My powermeter is an SRM Professional. You can buy one here: Save your pennies.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/road- ... n=Datafeed

[snowleopard]

My powermeter is an SRM Professional.

Whoa! I though wattbikes were expensive