Ranger's training thread

[snowleopard]

Mike--

Try this as a training plan.

Row 1:49 @ 22 spm (i.e., pretty darn well, 12.2 SPI) and mark the time/distance when your HR passes top-end (1) UT2, (2) UT1, (3) AT, (4) TR, and (5) (AN).

Then note when your heart rate maxes out and you have to stop.

In each session, keep repeating this exercise until you have rowed a total of 20K .

Do this session every day until you can row 1:49 @ 22 spm for 90min @ UT2.

ranger

Is this what you've been doing? Based on your notes, at what time/distance do you go through your various training bands, and how long are your continuous rows at 1:49@22spm (before your HR maxes out and you have to stop-- come to think of it, at what HR do you max out when you do these sessions?)? Are you getting closer to 90 minutes straight of UT2 rowing?

He won't give you a straight answer as you know. But look at it this way, if ranger shows up at BIRC he might be good for a middling 6:40 erg, probably slower. That would put his 30 mins @ 20 spm at around 1:54. So the likelihood of him erging for 90 mins at 1:49 rating 22 is a big fat 0. In fact, 1:49 is right on his free rate 30 mins split at present

ADDED LATER: I should have mentioned that towards the end of his all out 30R20 ranger will be seeing something like "165" on the dial of his HRM

[BrianStaff]

Then I'll be back out OTW.

Tell us why you chose NOT to practice on the river on Friday & Saturday?

You did post on a number of occasions that you were going to Lansing to practice...but then Did Not Show

[BrianStaff]

You know a lot of 60-year-olds who can just row along, 2:05 @ 26 spm, in a 1x?

Are you saying you did this on Sunday?

If so, do have any hard evidence of this? Just wondering, in case you might be using a wristwatch and eye-balling a map.

How about giving us some details of this epic row?

What was the frequency of boats starting?

Did you overtake any boats?

Did any boats overtake you?

How far had you rowed until "the collision"?

How far off course were you at the collision point?

How wide is the river at your point of collision?

[mikvan52]

You know a lot of 60-year-olds who can just row along, 2:05 @ 26 spm, in a 1x?

Are you saying you did this on Sunday?


How about giving us (......) row?

What was the frequency of (......)?

Did you (......)?

Did any (......)?

How far had you (......)?

How far(......)?

How (......)?

Brian! Big "WHOA!", good buddy...
Questions like those suggest replies including facts...
Stop.Right.There....


And as for ranger's question....(Do) You know a lot of 60-year-olds who can just row along, 2:05 @ 26 spm, in a 1x?

He doesn't but I do.

Richard Anderson from (guess where?!) a little known state: MI-CHI-GAN....
(repeat after me, Rich. " MI - CHI - GAN ")
What does Michigan mean? The name Michigan is based on the Chippewa Indian word "meicigama" meaning great water, and refers to the cries of happy injuns as they purposefully tip over their war canoes yellin' "great water! come on in pale faces!" .

Rich should try racing Rick on his "great water".

Then there's Jack Meyer, who I also know personally.
I predict that Jack will win this year's HOCR (60-69 division). It will either be Jack, Rick, or Jim (Dietz)... Jim looks to be taking it easier than last year. I started right behind him at the Green Mountain Head a few weeks back, passed him, and slowly pulled away.... I could not have done that last year... (He ain't trying hard in 2010). Does he have to? He has 20 and some HOCR 1st place titles...

ranger might remember Jack as someone who had the nerve to post a fabulous "unprecedented" distance row ON THE ERG a few years back.... => Yet another performance that Rich is unable to match IND_V...

All three of these 60+ year old men can go along at 2:05 and 26 spm... in their 1x-es

How do I know? I've seen them do it. Rick sculls in an Empacher; Jim sculls in a Fluid; and Jack loves his Van Dusen...

As for ranger...Well, what has he seen of all this? He did say yesterday that he's never even attended a sculling regatta before yesterday...
This clearly gives him first hand knowledge on oh-so-much....

[Byron Drachman]

I learned a lot yesterday.

That's wonderful news. There has been a miraculous transformation then, because you learned nothing from the time we did a tour of the Grand. Do you remember all the times I had to yell at you that you were about to run into something? But now you are all better and will learn from your mistakes. We all are thrilled to hear such good news I am sure. Here is my row of about 16K this morning. It is the route we took.

Oct_18_2010_row.JPG (45.66 KiB) Viewed 5488 times

To answer Brian's questions, the river is more than 100 m across at the infamous site of the collision. The event is rather low key. There is a pooling area and an official in a launch. He tries to space the boats about 15 seconds apart but the actual timing doesn't start until the rowers go under the bridge and a little past the bridge and then pass the timers. We will not get a straight answer from Ranger on his whereabouts at the time of the collision.

Speaking of Richard Anderson, the Rockford high school kids row so well. It is obvious they have an excellent program.

[jliddil]

Brian! Big "WHOA!", good buddy...
Questions like those suggest replies including facts...
Stop.Right.There....

You made my day with this

[mikvan52]

You know a lot of 60-year-olds who can just row along, 2:05 @ 26 spm, in a 1x?

Rich:

Want more challengers?

Here's some scouting to show you who'll you'll face on the national level at the head race distance next year.
I include those who are your age and older in the 60's age group.

This list is from the Green Mountain Head... a stake race w/a 180 degree turn around two boys 10' apart half-way thru:

Men's 1x: 55 - 64
Place Bow# First Last Age Wt Finish Start Elapsed

2 28 Jack Meyer 61 0:57:32.0 0:35:56.0 0:21:36.0
8 33 James Dietz 61 0:58:53.0 0:36:47.0 0:22:06.0
9 38 Andrew Nelson 60 0:59:51.0 0:37:42.0 0:22:09.0
10 37 Nikolay Kurmakov 59 0:59:44.0 0:37:29.0 0:22:15.0
11 35 Charles Hamlin 63 0:59:33.0 0:37:11.0 0:22:22.0
13 39 Dick Dreissigacker 63 1:00:29.0 0:37:53.0 0:22:36.0
15 43 Paul Gross 59 L 1:01:22.0 0:38:39.0 0:22:43.0
17 41 James Raymond 59 1:01:07.0 0:38:17.0 0:22:50.0
18 31 Paul John Flory 64 0:59:25.0 0:36:28.0 0:22:57.0

How many years will it be before you beat any of these guys, Rich... ?

What's your best time for 5k on the water so far?
Some one who can do 2:05 pace can easily do 22:57 (Flory) on a straight course as a workout...
It's about 2:23 pace....

Well?

[jliddil]

This list is from the Green Mountain Head... a stake race w/a 180 degree turn around two boys 10' apart half-way thru:

So do these "boys" walk on water?

[nharrigan]

I learned a lot yesterday.

That's wonderful news. There has been a miraculous transformation then, because you learned nothing from the time we did a tour of the Grand. Do you remember all the times I had to yell at you that you were about to run into something? But now you are all better and will learn from your mistakes. We all are thrilled to hear such good news I am sure. Here is my row of about 16K this morning. It is the route we took.

Oct_18_2010_row.JPG

To answer Brian's questions, the river is more than 100 m across at the infamous site of the collision. The event is rather low key. There is a pooling area and an official in a launch. He tries to space the boats about 15 seconds apart but the actual timing doesn't start until the rowers go under the bridge and a little past the bridge and then pass the timers. We will not get a straight answer from Ranger on his whereabouts at the time of the collision.

Speaking of Richard Anderson, the Rockford high school kids row so well. It is obvious they have an excellent program.

Byron- Did this incident occur on a right hand turn (starboard)?

[mikvan52]

This list is from the Green Mountain Head... a stake race w/a 180 degree turn around two boys 10' apart half-way thru:

So do these "boys" walk on water?

Yes; and both their names are Richard....
boys will be buoys

[ausrwr]

Much as I hate to admit this, I'm going to back Ranger on ONE piece of his Head of the Grand abortion.

The first time I went to a National Selection regatta back home, it was a format of 3*5k TTs over 4 days. On the FOURTH day, rowing on a river that is easily a hundred metres wide, I found myself nearly that far off course just over 2k into the TT.

To add insult to injury, I was only realising this as I saw the sculler who started in front of me in my far peripheral vision as I smashed, hard, into a navigation buoy and fell in. I promptly righted the boat, got back in, and took a hard stroke and fell in AGAIN. The impact had broken my port sculling blade.

It can happen to all of us. And I'd rowed this course (and HARD) several times before.

But unlike our favourite, I didn't go on about how awesome was. I knew I'd f@$ed up.

Rich: get over yourself. You need to learn a lot about sculling. There's a tremendous resource on here if you'd care to lower yourself to listening. It wouldn't matter if your prospective adviser was Mahe Drysdale, or Jutta Lau, you wouldn't listen.

For your information, they are respectively a) the fastest sculler in the world. Ever, and b) the most successful sculling coach. Ever.

The reasons for this would be several.
One: You would not ask.
Two: If you did ask, you would not listen.
Three: Although I haven't met the estimable Frau Lau, I doubt Mahe would talk to you, because you're an utter arsehole.

[mikvan52]

You know, taking pot shots at ranger is fun but we really should acknowledge his authorship of so much that is just _darn_ _good_ _training_

Like RWB

Just think if ranger were a novelist he could have followed in the footsteps of the greats:

If ranger were a novelist what would be some titles of his hysterical works and who would he try to emulate ?:

The Sun Never Rises
~ after Heminway

Morbid Dick
~ after Melville

Catcher on his Fly
~ after Salinger

A.D.D.
~ after Nabokov

Magic Cellar
~ Thomas Mann

Gone like the Windhover
~ Margaret Mitchell

anybody have others?

[jliddil]

Also Sprach Ranger
Zen and the Art of Scull Maintenance
I, Ranger
The Illustrated Ranger
Ranger Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
On Hundred Years of Rangertude
Ranger Farm

[Byron Drachman]

Byron- Did this incident occur on a right hand turn (starboard)?

It was a gradual bend to the starboard side.

Did you overtake any boats?
Did any boats overtake you?

I haven't talked to any of the single scullers yet but I am sure I will get more details on the race. There was a woman who was scheduled to do the women 1x later but they let her race in the earlier 1x for men so she could take her child home sooner. I think she started after Ranger. I would imagine that she passed Ranger well before the collision but as I said, I haven't seen any of the single scullers yet so I am just guessing.
added later:

It can happen to all of us. And I'd rowed this course (and HARD) several times before.
But unlike our favourite, I didn't go on about how awesome was.

I agree it can happen to anybody but in this case it was avoidable. The one time Ranger visited, the gradual bend was the first place on the course that required veering from a straight line. He continued in a straight line toward the shore on the wrong side. To keep the row friendly and sensing that Ranger takes any criticism or advice as a personal attack, I said nothing at the time. The only time I spoke up was when a collision was certain to happen if I kept quiet.

I wrote up a few notes, everything written in a positive, friendly way, and since I knew he would probably repeat his mistake at that bend at the head race, I started the notes with some suggestions on how to negotiate that gradual bend. I also had some suggestions on tweaking his rigging that I think would be worthwhile trying. I asked him if he wanted the notes and the suggestions and he made it very clear that he did not.

I even mentioned to MikeVB in advance that I knew exactly where he would have trouble. Can you imagine rejecting information on a head race course from someone who has rowed it so often? Isn't that something?

[ranger]

Lord.

Steering is a no-brainer, folks.

You just have to practice it a little--and that's that.

Sorry.

It's nothing like training yourself to be fast in a 1x when you are 60 years old.

Just make the comparison.

All 60s rowers who have had the time and place to practice it at all can steer.

I just haven't practiced it. I haven't had the time and place to do it.

But on a straight course, in good conditions, only a handful of 60s rowers in the United States can pull 5K, 2:05 @ 26 spm, in a 1x.

For someone like me, steering can be learned in a few days/weeks.

For those who can't do 5K, 2:05 @ 26 spm, I suspect, it can _never_ be "learned."

It is beyond their physical capacity, regardless of how well their row.

We'll soon see, but given my physical capacity, 2:05 @ 26 spm might still be as much as 26 seconds per 500m over what I can achieve on the erg for 5K.

The limit for lightweights is 12 seconds per 500m.

Mike VB is already at that limit. He pulls a 5K OTErg at about 1:48 and in good conditions on an easy course can do 2:00 pace for 5K OTW.

Given my physical capacity, it looks as though I can still improve as much as 14 seconds per 500m OTW, if I keep working on technique.

Happy about that.

ranger