General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
mikvan52 wrote:When you scull the Grand... What will you go out at if it's calm? You preened and fluffed up your peacock feathers a few days ago and said 2:05 pace... Have you revised that now to something a little more believable?
I'm going over the Lansing both tomorrow morning and Saturday morning to row the course.
If I feel up for it, I'll row the course at 26 spm to see how it goes.
In good conditions, I usually go 2:05 @ 26 spm, but of course, head race paces will depend on the weather, the course, steering, traffic, waves, temperature, wind, etc., not to mention my state of mind racing my 1x for the first time.
If I can do the course at 26 spm on Friday and Saturday, that's what I'll try on Sunday.
But who knows what might happen when a novice like me takes off down a course.
NavigationHazard wrote:Why is your not being close to able to do what you claim somehow "quite a bit better" than my situation? I'm not the one boasting (erroneously) over the alleged merits of my stroke. I'm not the one crowing about how I've found a magic bullet that will allow me to break a hatful of world records simultaneously. I'm not the one misrepresenting my training, fraudulently claiming to be doing "20k/day" with some magic stroke. And I'm not the one somehow equating a 3:08 1k at 34 spm by a 55-59 MHW (you) to a 2:50 1k at 34 spm by a 55-59 MHW (me). That's you, you, you and you.
The stroke isn't magic.
It is just effective and efficient, and the one I am now using.
I'll race as a lightweight at BIRC 2010.
I don't just do 20K on the erg every day.
On a daily basis, I also bike 1-2 hours, and when conditions permit, row OTW.
Note results are displayed as watts/Kg as that really defines performance in the real world. Once up to speed today, I was putting out 3.2 watts/kg. My PB in a TT (full aero bike with disc etc) in 2008 was 4.4W/Kg. 285watts at 65kg. (25mph over 13.2 miles). Elite Amatuers (aka Cat 1 racers would be 5W/Kg). Elite Pro's are about 6W/kg.
Just looking back at an earlier graph you posted, is 25mph 400 watts or am I looking at it wrong.
My 10 mile PB from this year is 24.01, so at 65 kgs that gives 6.15 watts per kilo?
I am not an elite pro just enjoy TTs, I will be 60 next week, so I beat Rich on that score
Which model are you using, may be a good tool for me in the winter months!
Cheers
Steve
Well the model of speed to power model that the Kurt Kinetic uses assumes you are climbing a 1% grade (53 feet of climbing every mile) and you are not in any aerodynamic position and not on an aero bike with any aero aids so your 25mph on an aero bike is going take less power than the rider in the kurt model. I'm not sure of the size of the rider in the model but my suspicion is he is a little porky. 25mph on a Kurt is very much harder than the real world 25mph of a time trialist on the generally flat course and aerodynamic aides. Like I said my 25mph was at 285 watts. Rough rule of thumb would be to add 2 mph to your KK speed to get a TT (aero bike config) speed.
My guess that your 24 mph was about 270 watts and 270/65 is 4.15on a W/kg basis. Over 10 miles at age 60, that's pretty good. I hope I still ride that hard when I'm 60.
Get the road machine model (and a bigger fan!)
Thanks for the explanation, target is a low 23mins next season and a sub 60 25 miler.
Ranger wrote:It is just effective and efficient, and the one I am now using.
A while ago you said that you would post a video of your OTW stroke if I would. I now row well and I was going to post a video but then I came across this. These guys row almost as well as I do, so I'll just put a link of them to save me the bother of making my own video. Just imagine the first sculler with a white beard and a wooden boat and then you have my video.
Ranger wrote:It is just effective and efficient, and the one I am now using.
A while ago you said that you would post a video of your OTW stroke if I would. I now row well and I was going to post a video but then I came across this. These guys row almost as well as I do, so I'll just put a link of them to save me the bother of making my own video. Just imagine the first sculler with a white beard and a wooden boat and then you have my video.
My references were to the erg.
But the other issue for older rowers, of course, is just getting the work done physically.
These videos of younger rowers don't represent the glaring fact that 60s rowers, both OTW and OTErg, are 15 seconds per 500m slower than these younger rowers, not for technical reasons, but for physical ones.
15 seconds per 500m is a lot.
By and large, younger rowers at the same level and with the same training are comparable physically.
So even the slightest difference in technical competence is crucial.
No so with older rowers.
Older rowers of a similar size, level of competition, and training can differ wildly in physical capacity, e.g., as measured by the erg.
When I was 55, I pulled sub-6:30 OTErg, without even preparing for it.
Mike VB pulled 6:45, fully trained.
You would _never_ see such a difference in physical capacity between two young rowers of a similar size, at a similar level of competition, and with similar training.
Last year, Mike VB pulled 6:50 at WIRC 2010; I am now preparing to pull 6:16.
OTW rowing is not _all_ technique.
If it were, OTW, older rowers would be just as fast as younger rowers.
But they aren't at all--by a country mile.
A younger rower can do Mike VB's 2K OTW race pace (TR) at a UT2 HR rating 22 spm, hardly breaking a sweat--and after seven minutes, keep doing it for another couple of hours.
Why?
Because Mike's maxHR is 163 bpm, down from 230 bpm when he was younger.
This doesn't have anything to do with technique.
You can't row anywhere very fast with that kind of restricted aerobic capacity.
And then there are things like this:
_Rowing Faster_ claims that, on the average, 60s rowers have lost 50% (!!) of their full-body strength.
For a rower, that's devastating.
Many older rowers also lose their quickness and flexibility, not to mention their minds.
ranger
Last edited by ranger on October 14th, 2010, 4:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.
ranger wrote:When I was 55, I pulled sub-6:30 OTErg, without even preparing for it.
As a hwt and you were a long way from the age group WR for that category. You had prepared. Your erging career began in 2003 so you had several years of preparation.
Last edited by snowleopard on October 14th, 2010, 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ranger wrote:When I was 55, I pulled sub-6:30 OTErg, without even preparing for it.
As a hwt and you were a long way from the age group WR for that category. You had prepared. Your erging career began in 2003 so you had several years of preparation.
When Paul Siebach is 55, I suspect that he will row sub-6:30, too.
If Graham Watt had continued to race on the erg, at 55, he would have rowed sub-6:30, too.
If Eskild E. continues to row, I can't imagine that he won't pull sub-6:30 when he is 55, too.
It just isn't that hard to do.
6:16 is another matter, but not 6:30.
I did it without even sharpening for it.
ranger
Last edited by ranger on October 14th, 2010, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ranger wrote:When I was 55, I pulled sub-6:30 OTErg, without even preparing for it.
As a hwt and you were a long way from the age group WR for that category. You had prepared. Your erging career began in 2003 so you had several years of preparation.
By preparation, I mean "anaerobic training," sharpening.
In the normal case, if you haven't been doing any races, trials, or anaerobic work at all, a couple of months of anaerobic intervals and distance trials improves your 2K time by a dozen seconds.
ranger wrote:When I was 55, I pulled sub-6:30 OTErg, without even preparing for it.
As a hwt and you were a long way from the age group WR for that category. You had prepared. Your erging career began in 2003 so you had several years of preparation.
By preparation, I mean "anaerobic training," sharpening.
In the normal case, if you haven't been doing any races, trials, or anaerobic work at all, a couple of months of anaerobic intervals and distance trials improves your 2K time by a dozen seconds.
That maybe so. On the other hand it may not. The fact remains, however, that since you are consistently dishonest and inaccurate in your reporting, no one could be certain just what preparation you did do in the run up to that 6:29+.
It was a good row, but it didn't lead to anything and all this talk of a 6:16 remains fatuous. Is your technique superior to EE's? Look at EE's legs and look at yours. Do you have any of the equipment required to a 6:16 at near 60?
regattacentral has not been updated, but it appears that the singles start around 10:40 and the doubles go at 11:00. At regattacentral it appears that they all go in the same heat. So you will have only five other scullers in your event. One sculler will be in a rec. boat and I'm not sure but I think at least one sculler is a high school student and they will start after you do. The point is that you will not have to contend with many other boats.
just enjoy TTs, I will be 60 next week, so I beat Rich on that score 
