Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

A nice goal for me over the Christmas holidays, just before I turn 60 (on January 25, 2011), would be to pull the American 60s lwt record for 2K at 22 spm (14 SPI).

Seven minutes of perfect low rate rowing.

I'll see if I can get that done.

ranger

P.S. For someone like NavHaz to do the same, he would have to do 1:34.5 @ 22 spm for 2K, right around 19 SPI.

[ranger]

Mike--

What are you shooting for at the Head of the Charles in two weeks?

2:05 @ 26 spm?

ranger

[ranger]

A good young rower could outrow Dietz by a minute at the Head of the Charles, just paddling along at 20 spm and a 65% HRR heart rate, barely breaking a sweat.

While Dietz would collapse at the finish line, exhausted from running an AT HR for 20 minutes, the young rower could continue down the river for a couple of hours, just to make sure he got in some good meters.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

Fraud. You haven't "done" anything of the sort. You haven't done a continuous 60' piece in seven years, let alone one at 1:49 r22 with a HR under 155 bpm, let alone one at 1:49 r22 with a HR that genuinely would be UT2 if you actually did a step test or lab protocol to establish your factual max HR and threshold-associated HR.

Your max HR isn't what you think it is and your training bands aren't what you say they are.

And while I think of it, how on earth does low drag "lengthen the slide"? Assuming you're getting your legs all the way down and staying in contact with the foot stretcher, you can't move the seat any farther back than lower-limb length length will allow. That distance is dictated by your body dimensions. It has nothing to do with drag.

Sorry, Nav.

It has everything to do with drag, and of course, the technique (quickness, length, leverage at the footplate, etc.) to take advantage of the low drag.

Everyone serious about rowing should be able to row for hours and hours at 22 spm and a high UT2 or low UT1 HR (e.g., 75% HRR, for me, 155 bpm).

When you do this, the pace you pull (divided by 22) gives you your natural stroking power (SPI), the most efficient and effective stroking power for you in a 2K.

When you do this, what do you get?

I get 1:48 @ 22 spm (12.5 SPI).

That's (pretty much) rowing perfectly for a lightweight of any age.

13 SPI is rowing perfectly for a lightweight of any age.

Your problem, I suspect, is your size.

To get the ratio (4-to-1), and therefore the kind of brief work (less than .6 seconds) and extended rest (2.4 second), I get rowing at 22 spm and 118 df., you would have to lower the drag right to the bottom.

On my machine now (dang, it needs a cleaning!), that's 78 df.

But, of course, if you did this, you would then have to have the requisite quickness, precision, and skill to take advantage of such a light chain.

Not much hope in that.

As you have discovered, at the moment, your quickness, precision, and skill demand almost twice the drag to get the job done (135 df.? 145 df.?).

You're as big as an elephant but clumsy and slow as an ox.

As a result, when you row at 22 spm, you work _waaay_ too much and rest _waaay_ too little.

And you also have glaring problems getting enough easy power even when you are doing this.

You can't even get 12.5 SPI for a natural stroking power when 16 SPI is rowing perfectly for a heavyweight.

Different world.

ranger

Muppet. I don't have access to a machine with a bottom-end DF of 78. Unlike yours, my erg isn't clogged with hamster fur. For the record, here's a representative stroke at my lowest possible drag and what the PM would display as 22 spm:



That's 1:37.1 pace and 21.5 spm, or 17.7 spi, at a drag factor for the stroke that ErgMonitor is displaying as 90.4. Drive duration rounded for display to 0.55 seconds, recovery rounded to 2.23 seconds; drive:recovery ratio was calculated at 1:4.03. Peak handle force was 122.6 kg. Average handle force was 78 kgs. Average handle force to peak handle force was a whopping 64%.

Hmm. My alleged lack of "quickness" and "precision" and "technique" -- "problems" so supposedly "glaring" as to preclude any chance I can do some analog of what you're claiming to be doing -- seem to be producing a stroke that's 11 seconds faster r21.5 DF 90 than your vaunted 1:48 r22 at DF 118. How can it be that my stroke is 140% more watts than yours? Wait, wait, don't tell me..... Perhaps I'm bigger, thicker, longer, larger in every dimension plus quicker to rise and slower to go down?

By the way, hamstergroin, the same is true of my force curve, too....

[ranger]

At 118 df. and race rate and pace, 1:34 @ 34 spm (12.5 SPI), my drive is now .55 seconds.

On the PM4, 1.25 inches along the horizontal axis, out of 2.75 inches on the horizontal axis as a whole.

The horizontal axis as a whole is 1.2 seconds.

My drive is 46% of that.

That means that I will be in just over a 2-to-1 ratio when I am racing.

Peak force is 125 kg.F.

ranger

[ranger]

That's cool.

If I count it out:

and-ONE-//-and-TWO-and-THREE

--drive------recovery---------

I need to put my metronome on 204 clicks per minute to sing along on the pulses.

That's fast!

My metronome only goes to 208 clicks per minute.

I have to ram the little weight that swings on the pendulum right to the bottom the get it going that quickly.

Crankin'!

ranger

[Citroen]

6:18.4 is the best by a 32 yr old Dan Staite

I am 9.8 seconds per 500m slower than Dan Staite...

Do you really want to compare yourself to Staite? He's a convicted performance enhancing drugs user.

[ranger]

That's 1:37.1 pace and 21.5 spm, or 17.7 spi, at a drag factor for the stroke that ErgMonitor is displaying as 90.4. Drive duration rounded for display to 0.55 seconds, recovery rounded to 2.23 seconds; drive:recovery ratio was calculated at 1:4.03. Peak handle force was 122.6 kg. Average handle force was 78 kgs. Average handle force to peak handle force was a whopping 64%.

Nice.

There's your perfect rowing.

So, do it for 20K a day, and you will get _waaay_ better.

That's what I'm doing.

A lightweight version of this is now my racing stroke.

At 34 spm, it's just over a 2-to-1 ratio and 12.5 SPI.

If you could get 16.5 SPI at 34 spm with your heavyweight version of the stroke, you'd be going 1:25 and would do a nice, solid 5:40 for 2K.



ranger

[ranger]

Nav--

If you train with this stroke, tell us when you get to 4 x 1K at 1:25 and 90 df.

That will be an exciting moment.

I'll do the same when I get to 4 x 1K @ 1:34 and 118 df., which should be pretty soon, hopefully before WIRC 2011.

Exciting stuff.

ranger

P.S. 20 x 500m, 1:25 @ 34 spm and 90 df. would also be great to get to. Tell us when you get there. I'll do the same when I get to 20 x 500m, 1:34 @ 34 spm and 118 df.

[NavigationHazard]

You'll be able to hold 1:34 r34 in a race for about 500m, after which the wheels will fall off because you lack the muscle strength and leverage and coordination to sustain the peak-force requirements you're setting yourself with that force curve shape at that drag. What are you going to do then? Oh yeah, I forgot. Handle down mid-race like you've developed a penchant for doing. By mid-December you'll be back hauling anchor at high drag because the low-drag/high-force model simply won't work for you. Oh, and you are NOT "doing 20k/day" at 1:34 r34. Any more than I am "doing" Salma Hayek AND Megan Fox AND the Dutch women's viii AND their coxie.

My metronome only goes to 208 clicks per minute.

Is that some sort of self-reflective cognitive assessment? Alternatively:

Your box of crayons is short a few colors.
Your elevator doesn't go to your top floor.
Your toolbox is missing a hammer.
You're six peppercorns short of a spice rack.
Your Happy Meal is missing a few fries.
Your dipstick isn't long enough to find oil.

[ranger]

You'll be able to hold 1:34 r34 in a race for about 500m, after which the wheels will fall off

My training will tell me what I will be able to do in a race and what not.

So will yours.

There is no mystery in the process.

I don't know about you, but this racing stroke (1:34 @ 34 spm at 118 df.) now feels great to me.

Love the big ratio.

Lots of rest.

Nothing unusual about the 12.5 SPI stroking power.

I've already done a sub-6:30 2K at 12 SPI, without even preparing for it and still struggling with some technical things, which I have now worked out.

It's _much_ easier to get the high stroking power at low drag with the legs and back (with relaxed shoulders) early in the drive than anchor hauling with the shoulders and arms at the finish at max drag, as I used to do.

ranger

[snowleopard]

There is no mystery in the process.

Oh but there is. The mystery of what's going on in your head.

Why don't you have a bash at 8 x 500 at sub 1:40 before you attempt the unachievable 4 x 1K @ 1:34. It's only a sharpening workout after all, so fits right in with where you are in your carefully plotted training cycle.

And if you are much better than that now, you won't have any difficulty posting an even faster session, will you?

[NavigationHazard]

I respectfully disagree. IMO there is no mystery at all. Fraudger cannot do in competition what he claims to be working towards. That's proximately because he is a fraud. He is not doing anything in training close to what he claims to be doing, or is perpetually about to be doing. More generally, his oft-bleated goal of a 6:16 2k is hilariously unachievable regardless of how he tries to get there. The rest of his panoply of ever-imminent achievements (20 x 500m, 8 x 500m, 60' r20, whatever the flavor of the last 10 minutes) fails similarly.

[ranger]

Hey, Nav--

How about this?

Let's train with these strokes for a while and then post some work in progress.

I'll post a video doing 1K, 1:34 @ 34 spm at 118 df., and you post a video doing 1K, 1:25 @ 34 spm at 90 df.

Then we can go on from there to work on 4 x 1K.

Whaddya say?

ranger

[hjs]

Nav--

If you train with this stroke, tell us when you get to 4 x 1K at 1:25 and 90 df.

That will be an exciting moment.

I'll do the same when I get to 4 x 1K @ 1:34 and 118 df., which should be pretty soon, hopefully before WIRC 2011.

Exciting stuff.

ranger

P.S. 20 x 500m, 1:25 @ 34 spm and 90 df. would also be great to get to. Tell us when you get there. I'll do the same when I get to 20 x 500m, 1:34 @ 34 spm and 118 df.

If you do yours first, no doubt Nav wil do his. But then you have to really show something