Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Your memory is short.

My major goal this fall and winter is 6:16 OTErg.

I don't have any goals with my OTW rowing at all, other than to keep doing it every day, working on technique, trying to get better.

ranger

[mikvan52]

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Your memory is short.

My major goal this fall and winter is 6:16 OTErg.

I don't have any goals with my OTW rowing at all, other than to keep doing it every day, working on technique, trying to get better.

ranger

total subject change...
ranger has lost it.

Once again: "Do you mean to say that you haven't done (any) 5k time trials OTW while putting in 1 million (water) meters this summer ... all the while reporting how fast you are getting OTW?"

The question is not about the erg, Rich!

You said this evening: "If I scull at 2:05 pace:" What justifies this choice of words? Wishing???
Wishing is not a plan.

Will you attempt to do even the first 2k of the Grand at 2:05 pace?... very doubtful

Note: Play the jovial fool all you want. It will not move a boat thru the water.

[DUThomas]

After three straight WR rows and the most consistent racing imaginable:
6:27.5, 6:28, 6:28.5, 6:29, 6:30, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:33, etc.?

Remind me -- what was your best racing time last year? Does it fit in the sequence above, other than as proof of your decline?

Loss of, say, 13 seconds in 7 years. That's right on schedule, isn't it?

[mrfit]

I guess that's one way to test your max HR, but there is really no reason to sit on the porch and speculate. I too felt a need to update my max HR. It's been a few years, So..go figure.... I just did it this morning (see graph below). I rode a WU for 15 minutes then gave 6 sprints (like steep hill climb full-tilt nipping 600W) interspersed over a 15 minute period. I knew at 15' of that I was ready so to go for it, so I unplugged my brain part that says "do not do these things", and dropped the hammer. I held 192bpm for 37 seconds. You can see a spike to 197 but am going to call 195 my max (at age 45).


http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/285/ ... roct10.png


Nice update to the stat. I had only seen 188 in racing this year and had some feeling I might have lost a few beats. Nope. Same as age 35.

Sure.

But today was my first day on the Kurt Kinetic.

You need to get used to changes in routine before you push things to the max.

So I won't be testing my maxHR for a while.

It is now clear that the bike is a good way of doing it, though, when I get around to it.

I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if I get to 195 bpm, too.

ranger

Oh my God. I forgot it was your first day. Sorry.

[Carl Watts]

Yeah it's going to take him seven years on that before he gets the technique right and then gets round to a bit of racing and measuring his max HR so come back soon !

[ranger]

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Your memory is short.

My major goal this fall and winter is 6:16 OTErg.

I don't have any goals with my OTW rowing at all, other than to keep doing it every day, working on technique, trying to get better.

ranger

[ranger]

The question is not about the erg

For you?

Indeed not.

But for me?

Indeed it is.

I am just completing a training program that has improved my rowing OTErg from rowing poorly (10 SPI) at max drag (200+ df.) to rowing perfectly (13 SPI) at minimal drag (118 df.), even though I was at WR pace over 2K to begin with.

Now, I just need to prepare to race--and race for a year or so, fully trained, perhaps six or eight times--to show how significantly such an improvement in technique and stroking power can improve a 2K time OTErg.

OTErg, everyone the same weight, age, and ability rows at the same rate.

The rower with the more effective stroke (SPI) wins.

You race at 34 spm. Rocket Roy races at 34 spm. Graham Watt races at 34 spm. Paul Siebach races at 34 spm. I race at 34 spm. Mike Caviston races at 34 spm.

But rating 34 spm, no 60s lightweight has ever pulled much more than 10 SPI OTErg.

10 SPI @ 34 spm is 6:44.

13 SPI is _hugely_ stronger stroke than 10 SPI.

30% stronger.

Three watts per stroke.

At 34 spm, over 100 watts in all, or pushing 10 seconds per 500 at the same rate.

So this will be exciting.

Although you certainly _could_ if you wanted to, OTErg, you haven't done similar training on technique and stroking power at all.

So you are not in my position.

OTErg, pretty much, you just prepare to race and race.

So, like everyone else, you are just getting worse and worse every year--about two seconds a year over 2K.

No one ever got any better OTErg by preparing to race and racing.

You get better OTErg by improving your UT rowing, both UT2 and UT1.

I suspect that you are now pretty much at a peak in your OTW rowing, too.

From now on, you can only get a couple of seconds slower over 2K OTW each year, too.

Year after year.

That is also _entirely_ different from my position.

Because I am just a novice OTW, just learning to row, by continuing to work on technique, I suspect that I can still improve by as much as six seconds per 500m OTW--at all distances--much more than I have been able to improve OTErg.

That's what will make it so much fun over the next decade.

As the years go by, I will get (substantially) better (and better).

That will be exciting, too.

Keep lookin' over your shoulder!

I'm comin'.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, it seems to me that one of the best tests imaginable for a maxHR would be to find, incidentally, that when riding along for a couple of hours on your bike (or rowing along for a couple of hours OTErg), your HR was riding comfortably at 175 bpm when you were doing 320 watts.

No?

An anaerobic threshold and a maxHR stand in a pretty set relation.

Many people have an anerobic threshold that is as low as 80% HRR; an anaerobic threshold that is 85% HRR is very good; and no one has an anaerobic threshold that is much beyond 90% HRR.

Mike VB's anaerobic threshold is 143 bpm.

Given this, on a long row (or ride), he is not going to discover, inadvertantly, that his HR is riding along at 175 bpm.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

If you want to get better OTErg, you need to pay the price.

To this point, you have done nothing of the sort.

You don't get something for nothing.

It took Mike C. five years of double sessions OTErg, working on stroking power, rarely missing a day, to get a dozen seconds bettter over 2K.

It has taken me seven years.

I don't see what would make you think that you are an exception to these generalizations about work done and benefit received.

If you pulled your guts out at 13-15 SPI for five years, 20K a day, rarely missing a day, as Mike and I have done, you'd get a _lot_ better OTErg.

But it is clear that you aren't interested.

So it goes.

It's your choice.

ranger

[PaulH]

After three straight WR rows and the most consistent racing imaginable:

6:27.5, 6:28, 6:28.5, 6:29, 6:30, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:33, etc.?

That really is the most consistent racing imaginable, because you're imagining it, aren't you? That list isn't in order (required to demonstrate consistency), and it misses out all the DNFs, DNSs, and 7:0x times in between. That's an impressive lie even by your standards.

[ranger]

After three straight WR rows and the most consistent racing imaginable:

6:27.5, 6:28, 6:28.5, 6:29, 6:30, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:33, etc.?

That really is the most consistent racing imaginable, because you're imagining it, aren't you? That list isn't in order (required to demonstrate consistency), and it misses out all the DNFs, DNSs, and 7:0x times in between. That's an impressive lie even by your standards.

Nope.

These were all done in a year two-year span, 2002-2003, without any DNFs, DNSs, and 7:0x times in between.

6:27.5 (Elkhart 2002)
6:28 (BIRC 2003)
6:28.5 (WIRC 2002)
6:29 (Detroit 2003)
6:30 (WIRC 2003)
6:32 (EIRC/Paris 2003)
6:32 (St. Catharines 2003)
6:32 (Ann Arbor 2002)
6:32 (Ann Arbor 2003)
6:33 (Elkhart 2003)
6:36 (Toronto 2003)

etc.

Why?

I prepared to race.

I haven't prepared to race since EIRC 2003.

I have been working on technique and stroking power, so that I could get better, rather than worse and worse, like everyone else who just prepares to race.

I am now preparing to race, though.

My work on technique is done.

I now row perfectly (13 SPI) at low drag (118 df.).

It will be interesting to see how this affects my 2K when I am again fully prepared to race, as I was back in 2002-2003.

Watch out!



When I am fully prepared to race, I am one of the best and most consistent racers in the history of the sport.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

Do you see that little figure that appears on the screen of the PM4 when you take a stroke?

Your force contour?

You need to work on stroking power until the top of that countour is at the top of the graph (135 kg.F) on the PM4--every time, automatically, easily (e.g., with a UT2/65-75% HR).

That's what I have trained myself to do.

If you can train yourself to do that, if you just keep doing it, eventually, you will be able to do 1:46 @ 22 spm for a FM and set the Open lightweight FM WR.

A FM is done at 2K + 14 (give or take).

So, a FM, 1:46 @ 22 spm predicts a 6:08 2K.

ranger

[Carl Watts]

Wow finally something useful in one of your posts, everyone rates at 34spm ! just by coincidence my 500M was done at 34 spm. This is as fast as I can row while maintaining a "True Form", that is to say utilising the full slide rather than the "Half Stoke" form that although appears to give you a 500M WR, is pretty much useless in a boat for more than a couple of strokes at the start I'm told.

This is not going to be my aim for the 2K however, 27-28spm is the aim because clearly 23 spm didn't work for me !

[ranger]

Wow finally something useful in one of your posts, everyone rates at 34spm ! just by coincidence my 500M was done at 34 spm. This is as fast as I can row while maintaining a "True Form", that is to say utilising the full slide rather than the "Half Stoke" form that although appears to give you a 500M WR, is pretty much useless in a boat for more than a couple of strokes at the start I'm told.

No, everyone the same age, weight, and training pulls a 2K at the same rate.

You aren't parallel to me, Mike, Roy, Graham, Paul, Dennis, etc., on _any_ of these counts, and a 500m is not a 2K.

BTW, I can keep good form, using a full slide, at 46 spm.

I am quick--and not very tall.

I am also rowing at a _very_ low drag and a _very_ high stroking power (for my size), so my drive time is _very_ short--less than .6 seconds.

This means that, for me, even 46 spm is over a 1-to-1 ratio.

I rest more than I work.

For me, my race rate, 34 spm, is a 2-to-1 ratio.

I rest twice as much as I work.

ranger

[snowleopard]

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Your memory is short.

My major goal this fall and winter is 6:16 OTErg.

Yours is even shorter. A couple of pages back you wrote that you don't have any short term goals.