Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

6:38.9 2k r18

Rate 20 spm is the task, not rate 18 spm.

ranger

[ranger]

[removed]

[ranger]

It has been demonstrated scientifically (by my brother, no less) that caffeine enhances athletic performance by as much as 20%, especially when the effort exceeds a couple of hours.

You are so full of crap. Highly sophisticated blood-doping programs only improve endurance performance by single digit %ages. Why don't you call up UCI and recommend that everyone just goes over to Starbucks for a double expresso instead of a blood transfusion

(Any yes, it's up to you to cite the reference. If you are having trouble finding it just ask your brother.)

Did you look up the research?

Obviously not.

ranger

[ranger]

It has been demonstrated scientifically (by my brother, no less) that caffeine enhances athletic performance by as much as 20%, especially when the effort exceeds a couple of hours.

You are so full of crap. Highly sophisticated blood-doping programs only improve endurance performance by single digit %ages. Why don't you call up UCI and recommend that everyone just goes over to Starbucks for a double expresso instead of a blood transfusion

(Any yes, it's up to you to cite the reference. If you are having trouble finding it just ask your brother.)

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2007 Feb;17(1):35-55.
Caffeinated sports drink: ergogenic effects and possible mechanisms.
Cureton KJ, Warren GL, Millard-Stafford ML, Wingo JE, Trilk J, Buyckx M.

Department of Kinesiology, University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602-6554, USA.
Abstract
This double-blind experiment examined the effects of a caffeinated sports drink during prolonged cycling in a warm environment. Sixteen highly trained cyclists completed 3 trials: placebo, carbohydrate-electrolyte sports drink (CES), and caffeinated sports drink (CES+CAF). Subjects cycled for 135 min, alternating between 60% and 75% VO2max every 15 min for the first 120 min, followed by a 15-min performance ride. Maximal voluntary (MVC) and electrically evoked contractile properties of the knee extensors were measured before and after cycling. Work completed during the performance ride was 15-23% greater for CES+CAF than for the other beverages. Ratings of perceived exertion were lower with CES+CAF than with placebo and CES. After cycling, the MVC strength loss was two-thirds less for CES+CAF than for the other beverages (5% vs. 15%). Data from the interpolated-twitch technique indicated that attenuated strength loss with CES+CAF was explained by reduced intrinsic muscle fatigue.

Kirk found that this difference in performance had nothing to do with anything physiological that he could detect (and he tracked everything he could). The effect was psychological.

ranger

[ThatMoos3Guy]

Yes, that study did show that there was a 17% increase in performance, however most studies found that it has less of an effect. If you read here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19077738 you will see that out of 21 separate studies "The mean improvement in performance with caffeine ingestion was 3.2 +/- 4.3%; however, this improvement was highly variable between studies (-0.3 to 17.3%)."

As for why caffeine works, no one really knows. The two main theories are that it increases the oxidation of free-fatty acids, and that it stimulates the CNS, which improves focus and blunts perceived exertion.

[mrfit]

http://img214.imageshack.us/f/hrandpower.png/

Just a demo of what is fairly uncommon on this thread: A graph of HR and Power (from my trainer time this AM). This is recovery power (aka UT2, HR under 150 for me, max 195. I mentioned this this morning in an earlier post. I did not want that claim to be a simple "say-so" since many claims are simply untrue all to often on this thread.

PS. I was on coffee!

[snowleopard]

It has been demonstrated scientifically (by my brother, no less) that caffeine enhances athletic performance by as much as 20%, especially when the effort exceeds a couple of hours.

You are so full of crap. Highly sophisticated blood-doping programs only improve endurance performance by single digit %ages. Why don't you call up UCI and recommend that everyone just goes over to Starbucks for a double expresso instead of a blood transfusion

(Any yes, it's up to you to cite the reference. If you are having trouble finding it just ask your brother.)

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2007 Feb;17(1):35-55.
Caffeinated sports drink: ergogenic effects and possible mechanisms.
Cureton KJ, Warren GL, Millard-Stafford ML, Wingo JE, Trilk J, Buyckx M.

Department of Kinesiology, University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602-6554, USA.
Abstract
This double-blind experiment examined the effects of a caffeinated sports drink during prolonged cycling in a warm environment. Sixteen highly trained cyclists completed 3 trials: placebo, carbohydrate-electrolyte sports drink (CES), and caffeinated sports drink (CES+CAF). Subjects cycled for 135 min, alternating between 60% and 75% VO2max every 15 min for the first 120 min, followed by a 15-min performance ride. Maximal voluntary (MVC) and electrically evoked contractile properties of the knee extensors were measured before and after cycling. Work completed during the performance ride was 15-23% greater for CES+CAF than for the other beverages. Ratings of perceived exertion were lower with CES+CAF than with placebo and CES. After cycling, the MVC strength loss was two-thirds less for CES+CAF than for the other beverages (5% vs. 15%). Data from the interpolated-twitch technique indicated that attenuated strength loss with CES+CAF was explained by reduced intrinsic muscle fatigue.

Kirk found that this difference in performance had nothing to do with anything physiological that he could detect (and he tracked everything he could). The effect was psychological.

Thanks for the reference.

If I read that correctly the trials were: placebo; sports drink CES; and caffeinated sports drink (CES+CAF). There was no caffeine only trial, i.e., it was caffeine plus electrolyte that produced the effect.

[hjs]

If I read that correctly the trials were: placebo; sports drink CES; and caffeinated sports drink (CES+CAF). There was no caffeine only trial, i.e., it was caffeine plus electrolyte that produced the effect.

And it was a 20% better, if was 17/23% better after 120 minutes cycling first. So first in totale not 20 % better, but looking at the overall a lot less and second, this shows a better fat burner and less use of glycogeen. That is not a better performance but a different full source. A better performance on caffeine would have been, one group on and one group off but both unlimited drinking and eating during the ride, just like it is when you cycle.

Or just one single 15 minutes test. And see if the caffeine group does better.

[mikvan52]

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2007 Feb;17(1):35-55.
Caffeinated sports drink: ergogenic effects and possible mechanisms.
Cureton KJ, Warren GL, Millard-Stafford ML, Wingo JE, Trilk J, Buyckx M.

Department of Kinesiology, University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602-6554, USA.

Work completed during the performance ride was 15-23% greater for CES+CAF than for the other beverages.

It is also probably worth distinguishing between "work" and "performance"
Performance can be a tricky word....

example 1: A rower worked at 300 watts for a minute. He then increased the work 10% and worked at 330 watts for the next minute.

example 2: A rower performed a 500m test at 1:40 pace. He then increased his pace 10% to 1:30 pace for the next 500m test.

Discrepancy:
In example 2 the watts increase from 350 watts (1:40 pace) to 480 watts (1:30 pace). The difference in wattage is not 10% (it's 37.14%) although the difference in pace is 10%.

Which measure changes in the Cureton study, wattage or pace?

Remember: "In physics, mechanical work is the amount of energy transferred by a force acting through a distance. Like energy, it is a scalar quantity, with SI units of joules."
A joule is the amount of energy exerted when a force of one newton is applied through a displacement of one meter. It is equivalent to one watt of power radiated or dissipated for one second.

My reading of Bro' -da- ranger is that wattage increased after ingestion of some drink that had a variety of things in it.
The distance covered in the trial did not increase 20%.... only the wattage did.

I guess this plays well into anyone engaging in spi fantasy

Let's look at this the other way: When work increases 10% (example 1) pace drops 3.29 seconds/500m . In common parlance the performance went from 1:45.27 pace to 1:41.98 pace. This works out to a drop of (3.29sec/105.27sec) only 3.1%... not 20%

here are the figures if you want to check the calculation
1:45.27 = 105.27sec
1:41.98 = 101.98 sec a ∆ of 3. 29 seconds
the wattage to pace values came from
http://www.machars.net

[mikvan52]

The statement by ranger also was not talking about physiological response (as, I surmise, his brother was) but psychological.

October 7th, 2010, 3:18 am

It has been demonstrated scientifically (by my brother, no less) that caffeine enhances athletic performance by as much as 20%, especially when the effort exceeds a couple of hours.

The effect is not physiological, but psychological.

ranger's conclusion remains anecdotal at best.

Most importantly remember the study:

"Work completed during the performance ride was 15-23% greater for CES+CAF than for the other beverages."

So cross out ranger's incorrect choice of words "caffeine enhances performance" and substitute "CES+CAF increases work completed"

My work here is done

[jliddil]

The same author:
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2008 Jun;18(3):328-42.
Ergogenic effects of low doses of caffeine on cycling performance.

Jenkins NT, Trilk JL, Singhal A, O'Connor PJ, Cureton KJ.

Department of Kinesiology, University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602, USA.
Abstract

The purpose of this experiment was to learn whether low doses of caffeine have ergogenic, perceptual, and metabolic effects during cycling. To determine the effects of 1, 2, and 3 mg/kg caffeine on cycling performance, differentiated ratings of perceived exertion (D-RPE), quadriceps pain intensity, and metabolic responses to cycling exercise, 13 cyclists exercised on a stationary ergometer for 15 min at 80% VO, then, after 4 min of active recovery, completed a 15-min VO2peak performance ride 60 min after ingesting caffeine or placebo. Work done (kJ/kg) during the performance ride was used as a measure of performance. D-RPE, pain ratings, and expired-gas data were obtained every 3 min, and blood lactate concentrations were obtained at 15 and 30 min. Compared with placebo, caffeine doses of 2 and 3 mg/kg increased performance by 4% (95% CI: 1.0-6.8%, p = .02) and 3% (95% CI: -0.4% to 6.8%, p = .077), respectively. These effects were ergogenic, on average, but varied considerably in magnitude among individual cyclists. There were no effects of caffeine on D-RPE or pain throughout the cycling task. Selected metabolic variables were affected by caffeine, consistent with its known actions. The authors conclude that caffeine preparations of 2 and 3 mg/kg enhanced performance, but future work should aim to explain the considerable interindividual variability of the drug's ergogenic properties.

[NavigationHazard]

6:38.9 2k r18

Rate 20 spm is the task, not rate 18 spm.

ranger

Who said anything about tasks? 19.6 spi was the accomplishment. At 20 spm, 19.6 spi is 392w = 1:35.25 pace, the same as the 55-59 MHW hammer-winning time in 2010.

[ranger]

The statement by ranger also was not talking about physiological response (as, I surmise, his brother was) but psychological.

No, as I said, my brother tracked as many physiological factors as he could, and he could not find any physiological source for the increased performance.

So, his conclusion was that the effect is phychological.

Caffeine dulls pain, perceived effort!

It makes us feel good, so we are willing to work harder.

ranger

[ranger]

6:38.9 2k r18

Rate 20 spm is the task, not rate 18 spm.

ranger

Who said anything about tasks? 19.6 spi was the accomplishment. At 20 spm, 19.6 spi is 392w = 1:35.25 pace, the same as the 55-59 MHW hammer-winning time in 2010.

Yea, for a 55s hwt, doing a 6:21 2K at 20 spm would be impressive.

We await the screen shot.

ranger

[aharmer]

Wow, ranger calling for screenshots. Funny, especially considering he's requesting it from the guy who is willing to throw up a screenshot of any workout he does for better or worse. You may want to consider removing that post and blabbering enough to move this one off the front page in order to preserve any slight shred of dignity you have left.