Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

agreed at the very top level the Erg may not help or even be detremental but that's only common sense, ideallly you would spend all the time you could OTW.

No veteran rowers are elite ("the very top level").

Therefore, a lot of work OTErg can _always_ help their OTW rowing.

Elite young rowers outdo the best 60s rowers by 45 seconds over 2K, 11 seconds per 500m.

This difference has nothing to do with skill and appears OTErg and OTW.

It has to do with fitness.

If a 60s rowers can cut this fitness gap in half, what then?

ranger

[ranger]

Everyone can assume that people our age will all be getting slower

No, not if they can continue to upgrade their skills in a way that overcomes, and even exceeds, in benefit, their physical decline.

You also leave out this:

The question is not whether an older rower is physcially declining, but how quickly they are declining.

Over the years from 20 to 60, a rower who declines physically by five seconds over 2K every decade rather than ten seconds every decade, will outdo their competition by 20 seconds by the time they are 60.

Over the years from 20 to 60, a rower who declines physically by five seconds over 2K every decade rather than twenty seconds every decade, will outdo their competition by 40 seconds by the time they are 60.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

The reason you are so slow OTErg might be because you use the same speed of leverage OTErg that you use OTW, but rowing at low drag, against less resistance.

Have you tried rowing at max drag OTErg?

That might get you more speed, given your sluggish leverage.

ranger

Mike would have to be a fool to follow such poor advice. High drag rowing on a C2 erg will only lead to injury plus ruin his technique for when he gets back into a boat. He would be wiser to listen to the top female lightweight sculler in the USA (Ursula Grobler). She doesn't train on a C2 erg at all because she believes they ruin your technique and timing in the boat.

On a C2 erg all you are doing is chasing numbers. How is that going to help anyone serious about going fast on the water. It doesn't help Ranger nor is it likely to help anyone else. Ursula set a World record on a C2 erg without even training on one.

Ursula is a young elite OTW rower.

If she doesn't use the erg, plus cross-training until the cows come home, by the time she is 60, she will be as slow as the hills, both OTerg and OTW.

The decline won't be in her OTW skiills.

The decline will be in her fitness.

If she doesn't maintain her fitness, by the time she is 60, she will row like an old bag, in ways that have no resemblance to an elite young rower.

ranger

[ranger]

Yes, as Roland says, rowing OTErg is indeed a chasing after numbers.

And these are the crucial ones for older veterans:

OTErg, the nornal 60s rower uses a stroke that is 45% weaker than an elite young rower.

In terms of fitness, compared to their own elite young selves, the normal 60s rower has lost almost half of their aerobic capacity and full body power.

ranger

[Citroen]

Yes, as Roland say, rowing OTErg is indeed a chasing after numbers.

And these are the crucial ones for older veterans:

OTErg, the nornal 60s rower uses a stroke that is 45% weaker than an elite young rower.

In terms of fitneess, compared to their own elite young selves, the normal 60s rower has lost almost half of their aerobic capacity and full body power.

ranger

Eh?

If I had a lake or river on my doorstep and I had the choice of rowing in the cellar on an ergo or getting the boat out on the water I know what I'd choose.

The ergo would be gathering dust ALL SUMMER. The ergo would only see the light of day on wet days, when it wasn't safe or when the season turns too cold to be safe.

I'd be following the Mike VB and Byron Drachman training plans.

There are some lunatics who'll spend their whole life on the ergo in their cellar. They don't know what they're missing.

The same goes for the bike, when it comes to a choice of road or turbo, I know what I choose and the weather has to be absolutely terrible to ever dream of using a turbo.

There are some lunatics who'll spend their whole life on the turbo in their cellar. They don't know what they're missing.

Some of that lunatic fringe probably spend too much time posting on internet forums at three o'clock in the morning.

GO ON GET OUTDOORS, GET IN YOUR BOAT OR GET ON YOUR BIKE.

[Carl Watts]

Sure veteran rowers can be classed as Elite. Being an Elite athlete is just one who is at the top of their game. You have to factor in age to create a level playing field in competition or what's the point even racing or doing anything other than sitting on the couch after the age of 40 ?

To be more specific, given a choice of either train on the Erg or train on the water your going to train OTW as a single. Bad weather or the fact it is dark or your lake or river just froze over is the only reason you would want to get on an Erg at the top level it's just a maintenace tool to keep you at your peak if you cannot get in a boat.

I like the Erg but I have to be honest, you could train a Monkey to yank the chain in 20 minutes. OTW requires way more technique not just power. Put another way does racing on a Playstation help a Formula one driver ? I think not.

[ranger]

Sure veteran rowers can be classed as Elite.

No they can't.

No one who has needlessly squandered 50% of their aerobic capacity and full body power just because of a sedentary lifestyle for 40 years is much of an athlete at all, much less an elite one.

For people like that, in terms of their physical life, the only thing left is poppin' the top on a beer, ripping' into a couple of greasy brats, and sittin' in the sun, waitin' to die.

ranger

[ranger]

Wow.

This low drag thing is really nifty.

Love the rhythm of it.

At higher rates, such as 36 spm, what I would like to do as a race rate, I think my drive is now only .42 seconds, not .55.

Out of 8 beats in a 4-beat measure, I slam down my legs on the upbeat (count 8) and finish with my arms on the down beat (count 1).

and ONE // and TWO and THREE and FOUR //

drive---//-----recovery------------------

Amazing.

A 3-to-1 ratio, pulling 36 spm.

Well, there it is.

6:12, coming up.

Rowing this way, I pull at least 12 SPI, just like the great Danish lightweights.

12 SPI @ 36 spm is 1:33/6:12.

ranger

[ranger]

If I had a lake or river on my doorstep and I had the choice of rowing in the cellar on an ergo or getting the boat out on the water I know what I'd choose.

Yea.

Rowing OTW is great.

I now do 10K a day.

I row in the best boat made.

I hope to get to 15K a day by the end of the fall.

Next year, I hope to put in 20K a day.

20K a day OTW is just about what is done in competitive OTW training programs for developing elite juniors.

I suspect that National Team rowers do something more like 40K a day OTW.

Door County, WI, where I will spend six months out of the year when I retire in a few years, is one of the best rowing venues imaginable.

My house is on a 30-foot cliff overlooking Lake Michigan.

I just inherited the house (and the property) from my mother, who passed away in April, at the age of 93.

Crisp, dry air; crystal clear water; no boat traffic; pristine cliffs and woods; etc.

The best.

I'm with ya, Dougie.

ranger

[ranger]

I agree entirely that the rhythm of the erg is more like an 8 than a 1x.

But so it goes.

An 8 is a boat, too.

Rhythmically, the erg is an 8.

As in an 8, which is going _very_ fast, the best stroke is _very_ snappy, and is pulled against light resistance.

For the fastest lightweights, who have short little legs, arms, and torsos compared to their counterpart 6'10", 250 lb. heavyweights, the duration of the drive is pushed down to close to .4 seconds and the rate is lifted to close to 45 spm.

In this business, here is the magister ludi of our time.



ranger

[lancs]

Once your fitness peaks, as a veteran, how do you improve your UT2 rowing four seconds per 500m, while aging seven years, as I have.

You haven't improved your UT2 rowing by 4/500m at all.

[ranger]

Lots of rowing at 36 spm for the next six months.

and ONE // and TWO and THREE and FOUR //

drive---//-----recovery------------------

Amazing.

A 3-to-1 ratio, pulling 36 spm.

118 df.

ranger

[ranger]

Once your fitness peaks, as a veteran, how do you improve your UT2 rowing four seconds per 500m, while aging seven years, as I have.

You haven't improved your UT2 rowing by 4/500m at all.

Yes, I have.

You could, too, if you put in 50 million meters working on it.

Not much hope in that, though.

You can't be arsed.

Taking whole years off, Lancs, doesn't cut it.

If you don't use it, you lose it.

1:37/6:28 (my lwt 2K pb) - 4 = 1:33/6:12.

This year, you probably won't make weight.

And you probably won't break 6:35.

What in the world ever make you think that you get somethin' from nothin'?

ranger

[lancs]

You can't be arsed.

As usual, you are so wrong as it is possible to be. You have no idea why I took a year off training. No idea at all.

You are a moron of the highest order and it's quite amusing watching you parade it on here on a daily basis. There is something slightly wrong about us poking the stick at someone with a mental illness as you clearly have but, what the heck, you've enough insight to know what you're doing.

[mikvan52]

Door County, WI..... is one of the best rowing venues imaginable.

Hmm... let's take a look at "Ol' Gitchee Gummee"
where the old Chippewa Indian braves train for countless hours in their humble war canoes....

http://www.wisconline.com/counties/door/map.html

Where's the protected flat water, Rich? You know, where you'll row for 40 k w/o a break thru your sunset years?

Ever think why there's this "30-foot cliff overlooking Lake Michigan"?

Wind... waves: good for mostly one thing:
"The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" and, before to long, "The Demise of the Richard Cureton"




BTW: I like that line:

ripping' into a couple of greasy brats, and sittin' in the sun, waitin' to die.

..very hopeful! It projects the sense of being an upbeat kind of guy and a real winner!