Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

Training plans for rowing on the erg are all about fitness.

Therefore, once you reach a peak of fitness, as I did back in 2003, and have maintained since then, none of the training plans for rowing on the erg have anything to say about how you can improve your UT rowing and therefore augment your potential, so that when you sharpen, you are faster over 2K.

As far as training goes, you are on your own!

If you are out of shape, sure, following a rowing plan will help.

But ironically, training plans for rowing on the erg teach you nothing about rowing itself.

This is a _huge_ limitation.

ranger

[ranger]

I assume that one of these days I'll do a FM @ 1:48.

So, my improvement has been 4 seconds per 500m.

Not until you actually do the FM @1:48 it hasn't. Until then, your only timed pieces since 2003 (several 2ks) have confirmed you have got slower.

I repeat, you have not improved until you actually row the piece. Without the breaks you've become so fond of too.

Anyway, this is moot since, as I've mentioned before, you are unable to complete 10K at that pace and rate.

No, not necessarily.

I didn't row a FM @ 1:52 in 2003, either.

I only did 1:54.

But I _did_ do a lot of comfortable, untimed rowing at 1:52.

On the other hand, I assume that if I worked at it specifically, I would indeed have done a FM @ 1:52.

I just didn't bother.

Rather, in my distance rowing, I did things like row all day (14 hours, 167K), raced 100K, etc.

I only did one FM trial, and when I did it, I paced it poorly, doing the first 20K @ 1:55 and then realizing that this was too slow, did the next 10K @ 1:48, and then realizing that this was too fast, limped in to the finish.

Thus, the bad time, given my UT2 pace.

The slow FM trial that I did had no bearing on what my UT2 pace was, though.

All of my other times line up like soldiers.

I just never "tested" what I could do at UT2.

Why?

I didn't do any low rate rowing to speak of.

I usually did UT1 sessions.

ranger

[ranger]

Until then, your only timed pieces since 2003 (several 2ks) have confirmed you have got slower

My last 2K in 2003 was 6:32.

In 2006, I pull 6:29.7, without even preparing for it.

I did no sharpening routines, but was faster because I pulled 12 SPI at a lower rate (31 spm) for the race.

In 2003, I only pulled 10.5 SPI.

From 2003 to 2006, I worked exclusively on stroking power, rowing at low rates.

To be comparable, 2Ks have to be done under the same conditions, e.g., with the same amount of preparation.

I haven't sharpened since 2003.

So I haven't done a comparable 2K since then.

I will be fully sharpened for BIRC 2010, though.

So there isn't a long time to wait to see if I am now faster.

Just a couple of months.

There is also this:

I now row perfectly (13 SPI) at low drag (118 df.).

Since 2006, I have continued to work exclusively on technique and stroking power, over the last half a year or so, at low drag (118 df.).

I have also been working on technique in my daily 11K sessions OTW.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Row us a training piece Rich!

As your own rowing illustrates, the approach to training OTErg that you express here only makes you worse--year in and year out.

So why even bother?

ranger

Back to ranger:

Row us a training piece Rich.

Prrretty Scaaarry, isn't it to not have the raw speed anymore?
I am faster than you at 500m as a lwt...
I know I'm pretty ordinary.
You, OTOH, think you are greased lightning...

Don't think so, Rich?
Post a 500 as a lwt that shows otherwise... IND_V.

If you are 6:28 2k material, this would be a cake walk!



And as for me being slower: I sculled a PR in the single this year...

How wrong do you need to be?

[ranger]

And as for me being slower: I sculled a PR in the single this year...

Yes, I noticed.

Congrats.

Exactly the same time you did last year.

Your rowing OTW hasn't been improving because you have been improving your fitness, though.

You have been getting better at rowing OTW.

Just my point.

Traditional training plans for rowing OTErg have nothing to say about how to get better at rowing.

They are all about fitness--and that's it.

If you race OTErg this winter, I assume you'll again be worse, unless you change the way you train, and learn to row well OTErg, as you work at learning to row well OTW.

ranger

[aharmer]

The whole story of what you can pull for 2K is determined by what you can do with a UT2 HR @ 20-22 spm for an hour, or two hours, or three.

Maybe true. However, this implies the athlete is erging at UT2 HR for an hour or two or three NONSTOP. Your RWBs routine doesn't correlate to the same 2k as the athlete that's doing the same paces and rates for hours nonstop. You haven't done any nonstop pieces of that length so how in the world do you know what 2k pace your training correlates to? You also seem to refuse to do any sharpening workouts that would tell you where you're at, so BIRC will be interesting. You're banking on 6:20, so first 500 will be 1:35...what happens after that is a total mystery to everybody including yourself.

Unless of course I'm right, you're doing predictive sharpening workouts, but not posting them here because they don't corroborate your story here. I'm sure somebody at BIRC will be posting updates and will see what the first 500 is.

[ranger]

The whole story of what you can pull for 2K is determined by what you can do with a UT2 HR @ 20-22 spm for an hour, or two hours, or three.

Maybe true. However, this implies the athlete is erging at UT2 HR for an hour or two or three NONSTOP.

Sure.

Glad we agree.

But the issue for training is this:

Once your fitness peaks, as a veteran, how do you improve your UT2 rowing four seconds per 500m, while aging seven years, as I have.

Quite a trick.

Traditional training programs for rowing have nothing at all to say about this.

ranger

[ranger]

You also seem to refuse to do any sharpening workouts that would tell you where you're at

No, not at all.

I will be sharpening for the next two months.

As I said, I'll post the results of my predictive sharpening workouts as I do them.

If you sharpen hard, as I will, with all sorts of different routines, you know your 2K pace within about .1 of a second.

Then racing is a no-brainer.

You just hold that pace for 1700m--and then kick it at max to the finish.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

The reason you are so slow OTErg might be because you use the same speed of leverage OTErg that you use OTW, but rowing at low drag, against less resistance.

Have you tried rowing at max drag OTErg?

That might get you more speed, given your sluggish leverage.

Or, of course, you could learn to be quicker with your leverage.

It doesn't seem that there is much hope for that, though.

It appears that you don't want to be arsed to try.

To increase the speed of your leverage, you need to erg a lot at high stroking powers, as I have done for the last seven years.

50 million meters @ 15 SPI?

ranger

[mikvan52]

And as for me being slower: I sculled a PR in the single this year...

Yes, I noticed.

Congrats.

Exactly the same time you did last year.

Your rowing OTW hasn't been improving because you have been improving your fitness, though.

You have been getting better at rowing OTW.

Just my point.

Traditional training plans for rowing OTErg have nothing to say about how to get better at rowing.

They are all about fitness--and that's it.

If you race OTErg this winter, I assume you'll again be worse, unless you change the way you train, and learn to row well OTErg, as you work at learning to row well OTW.

RICH: Everyone can assume that people our age will all be getting slower... and, they'll be right. End-of-story...

Both of us stopped speeding up on the erg several years ago...


Grin and bear it, my friend... The sequence is: (then) (then) (then)

[mrfit]

Mike, he's just trying to get your goat. "ATTENTION PLEASE" !!!! he says. I guess his rowing is not that interesting, but yours is. Do you talk about his rowing in your blog.???...Didn't think so. Why would you?

Keep hammering him on the screenshot. Seems to be the bee in his bonnet these days. BIRC just 8 weeks away and he's only just now got his poop together. OUCH. (Or Yikes as I've heard).

[Rockin Roland]

Mike--

The reason you are so slow OTErg might be because you use the same speed of leverage OTErg that you use OTW, but rowing at low drag, against less resistance.

Have you tried rowing at max drag OTErg?

That might get you more speed, given your sluggish leverage.

ranger

Mike would have to be a fool to follow such poor advice. High drag rowing on a C2 erg will only lead to injury plus ruin his technique for when he gets back into a boat. He would be wiser to listen to the top female lightweight sculler in the USA (Ursula Grobler). She doesn't train on a C2 erg at all because she believes they ruin your technique and timing in the boat.

On a C2 erg all you are doing is chasing numbers. How is that going to help anyone serious about going fast on the water. It doesn't help Ranger nor is it likely to help anyone else. Ursula set a World record on a C2 erg without even training on one.

[Carl Watts]

Firstly I think it is important to separate rowing on the C2 Erg from OTW as a sport in it's own right.

I have never rowed OTW in anything other than a dingy with a couple of oars as a kid and have no real ambitions to do it either.

Like it or not the C2 would help my OTW performance purely as it is radically changing my cardio performance, agreed at the very top level the Erg may not help or even be detremental but that's only common sense, ideallly you would spend all the time you could OTW.

Thing is top level doesn't apply to 99.9% of us out there and we Erg for a different reason. C2 has a great online community with RowPro and a Forum and I can erg any time of the day or night in any weather. I don't need to row OTW just to improve my fitness and to feel great.

[ranger]

agreed at the very top level the Erg may not help or even be detremental but that's only common sense, ideallly you would spend all the time you could OTW.

Wrong, it appears.

A study of elite rowers has now shown that those rowers who return to the erg in mid-season during their OTW rowing get as much as six seconds over 2K compared to those who don't.

ranger

[PaulH]

If you sharpen hard, as I will, with all sorts of different routines, you know your 2K pace within about .1 of a second.

For new readers, please be aware that this doesn't mean ranger will ever perform at that 2K pace. Events on the day can cause his time to vary by as much as 20 seconds or more. Strangely it never seems to vary in the faster direction...