Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

I think my time pace at 0.968 calibration would be slower

No, your speed coach was right on with a calibration of 1.00.

The results say that you rowed 37:59.

So, right on 2:00 pace.

I see that Brian Tryon came in 2:20 in front of you.

He was my learn to scull instructor here in Ann Arbor back in 2003.

Brian must have been rating 30 spm.

1:53 pace

Brain can pull 6:25 for 2K OTErg.

So, something comparable to what I can do.

This means that I can also rate 30 spm for 10K OTW, when I am fully trained up for it.

ranger

[Bob S.]

THis leads me to conclude that he posts to provoke, not to inform.

Not exactly a revelation after all these years of his trolling.

Bob S.

[ranger]

The shape of your force curve is crap Ranger, it's an example of what NOT to do.

Why not look up the article on the Concept 2 Uk site, it looks like they used your curve in Figure 2.

Funny enough It's in the Schools learning to row section, but then again you started to row so late in life you missed it.

It was written by Eddie Fletcher of Fletcher Sport Science - coach to many indoor rowers including 5 time British IRC champion Graham Benton....... so obviously he will not know his arse from his elbow in your opinion because YOUR the best coach in the world.

Seven years and you still cannot even Erg properly, the fish will have no chance with you on the water.

You mean that my force contour should look like this, comparable to other 60s lwts?





No thanks.

If I were a broken down old man, sure, that would be fine.

But I'm not.

I row like a 20-year-old.



ranger

[ranger]

2) You've "achieved" this "miracle" of force production mainly by contracting your drive duration. Within the limits of monitor resolution, it looks as though you're at 0.55 seconds in this screenshot. The stroke cycle r23 takes 2.6 seconds. Thus your drive:recovery ratio is 0.55:2.05 or 1:3.72. Neither drive duration nor ratio are anywhere near what you've been touting them to be.

We've had this discussion before.

The PM4 misses the first part of the drive.

It falls off the screen to the left.

You can't measure drive duration by using the horizontal axis on the PM4.

My drive duration is .75 seconds, give or take a bit.

At 23 spm, my ratio is not even 3-to-1.

ranger

[mikvan52]

THis leads me to conclude that he posts to provoke, not to inform.

Not exactly a revelation after all these years of his trolling.

Bob S.

Every day is "Groundhog's Day" here in rangerland!

regards,
Mike

please, Nobody!, please, Nobody! watch this clip again

It's like reading this thread....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkW_ZkMtmlQ

[mikvan52]

I row like a 20-year-old.

.. and explain things like a willful 3-yr old stamping his feet...

Where's any IND_V TT on the erg?
That would explain...

[ranger]

Where's any IND_V TT on the erg?
That would explain...

Here is a first installment:

RANKING RESULTS 2004
Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Ages 50-59 | 2004 Season

1 Rich CURETON 52 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:28.0 RACE
2 Chris Bertram 51 Old Windsor GBR 6:37.7 RACE
3 Dennis Hastings 53 USA 6:39.5 RACE
4 Roger Prowse 58 Isle of Wight GBR 6:43.3 RACE
5 Taisto Ylönen 50 Kellokoski Finland GBR 6:44.8 RACE
5 Peter ENGLISH 50 GBR 6:44.8 RACE
7 Bob Lisle 52 GBR 6:47.1 RACE
8 Alain Mangin 54 GBR 6:47.5 RACE
9 Aage CHRISTIANSEN 52 Oslo N NOR 6:53.2 RACE
10 George Meredith 54 Gravesend Kent GBR 6:55.7 RACE

But that was rowing poorly (10 SPI) at max drag (200+ df.).

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (118 df.), so I am quite a bit better than I was in 2004.

The second installment will come at BIRC 2010 and WIRC 2011.

6:16 at 60.

ranger

[leadville]

-babble-

Brain can pull 6:25 for 2K OTErg.

So, something comparable to what I can do.

This means that I can also rate 30 spm for 10K OTW, when I am fully trained up for it.

ranger

You can't, and you won't, because you're never going to be 'fully trained up' for anything.

Not due to a lack of effort, but rather a lack of intelligence, ability, and skill.

And if you ever do row at a 30 for 10k, it will be at a load so light it'll take an hour.

[NavigationHazard]

2) You've "achieved" this "miracle" of force production mainly by contracting your drive duration. Within the limits of monitor resolution, it looks as though you're at 0.55 seconds in this screenshot. The stroke cycle r23 takes 2.6 seconds. Thus your drive:recovery ratio is 0.55:2.05 or 1:3.72. Neither drive duration nor ratio are anywhere near what you've been touting them to be.

We've had this discussion before.And you learned nothing from it.

The PM4 misses the first part of the drive. Yes. It truncates the first 5 hundredths of a second or so.

It falls off the screen to the left. No; the PM displays the force curve from left to right.

You can't measure drive duration by using the horizontal axis on the PM4. Yes you can.

My drive duration is .75 seconds, give or take a bit. No it isn't. The PM4 does not miss 0.2 seconds of drive.

At 23 spm, my ratio is not even 3-to-1. In this screen shot it was closer to 1:4 than 1:3. And while we're here, why is it so hard for you to express drive:recovery ratio as drive first:recovery second?

ranger

You may think you're taking .75 seconds on your "drive." But 1) that doesn't account for catch slip, i.e. time spent accelerating the handle to the point where the ratchet engages and you start accelerating the flywheel; and 2) some of what you think is drive is useless sitting at the finish, no longer accelerating the flywheel because the ratchet is disengaged.

[ranger]

You can't, and you won't, because you're never going to be 'fully trained up' for anything.

I expect that I will be "fully trained up" for the Head of the Grand, although it will be my first OTW race, so I don't see how anyone's expectations including mine, can be high for this race.

Nonetheless, if conditions are good and I rate 26 spm, I'll be well under 2:10 pace for course, perhaps as fast as 2:05 pace.

I'll be happy with that.

I guess everyone has to start somewhere, huh, coach.

And if I can get this done, it won't be bad at all.

Unless I am missing a whole bunch of folks and what they have done, only a handful of Veterans can do better.

ranger

[ranger]

[removed]

[ranger]

Would someone remind me as to why one stroke is important?

We've been going on for years with these snap shots of one stroke... to no avail.

No results for a sustained piece at such lofty power..

Congratulations on taking a stroke, ranger. Where's 5k, 2k, (any k)?

I have done 2K at 12 SPI (6:29),1:38 @ 31 spm, up from 10.5 SPI in 2003.

But that was in 2006, at high drag, still struggling with various aspects of technique, and without sharpening for it.

I am now 1 SPI better than that.

I'll now race at 13 SPI, rowing well at low drag (118 df.).

1:34 @ 32 spm.

ranger

[ranger]

2) You've "achieved" this "miracle" of force production mainly by contracting your drive duration. Within the limits of monitor resolution, it looks as though you're at 0.55 seconds in this screenshot. The stroke cycle r23 takes 2.6 seconds. Thus your drive:recovery ratio is 0.55:2.05 or 1:3.72. Neither drive duration nor ratio are anywhere near what you've been touting them to be.

I am not sure that ratio has any function independent of what is felt by the rower, but if you and others think so, and my drive time is now only .55 seconds, I guess I am delighted.

At 36 spm, I am in a 2-to-1 ratio, pretty much right on the button.

.55 seconds on the drive.

1.1 seconds on the recovery.

Fine with me.

That's a lot of rest between drives.

In this, PaulS's drive time is .5 seconds.

1.25 seconds for the recovery.

I guess this is what happens when you row at low drag.

Things get really snappy.

http://www.ps-sport.net/pictures/Test01 ... akPaul.jpg

Undoubtedly, this is why things like 1:48 @ 22 spm are so easy for me now at 118 df.

UT2, rather than UT1, as it used to be.

A whole training band different, in terms of effort.

Even though I am doing 22 spm, which is a fairly substantial rate, I am in a 4-to-1 ratio.

I have 2.2 seconds rest between drives.

If my drive were .75 seconds, I would have to lower the rate to 16 spm to get to a 4-to-1 ratio.

BTW, the 130 kgF of peak force that I now get on my stroke is more peak force than Paul gets on his stroke.

ranger

[PaulH]

Unless I am missing a whole bunch of folks and what they have done, only a handful of Veterans can do better.

You're mixing standards - you know almost nothing about the training of just about every Veteran out there. So if you're content to project what you *can* do based on your training, you should apply the same standard to other Veterans. In other words, there may well be dozens and dozens of Veterans that *can* do better.

[ranger]

BTW, if my drive is only .55 seconds, this means that I am in a 3-to-1 ratio when I am rating as high as 26 spm.

Yikes.

That's a lot of rest between drives.

1.65 seconds

No wonder it feels so easy.

That's really "snappy" rowing.

Quick catches.

Quick finishes.

Quick recoveries.

Then a lot of rest, floating back down to slide.

Sing it, Julie.

"Row, row, row your boat..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5RKxqeKL5Q

ranger