Ranger's training thread
Re: Ranger's training thread
Rich you asked about handicaps in the 9.5 k GMS challenge.
The worst thing for scullers and handicaps is if they don't ever get on the water an participate is that they cannot appreciate how they work in practice.
Seriously:
I am not a fan of handicaps... They only confuse results. Just post the raw times (I say)...
Here's how I did last year... But my calibration was off. I was slower than this I think (but am not sure).
It was a great event. I got to scull with Greg Stone and other top guys... (Greg was third at last year's HOCR)
SEE:
http://concept2.co.uk/forum/blog.php?u=7679&b=66690
The worst thing for scullers and handicaps is if they don't ever get on the water an participate is that they cannot appreciate how they work in practice.
Seriously:
I am not a fan of handicaps... They only confuse results. Just post the raw times (I say)...
Here's how I did last year... But my calibration was off. I was slower than this I think (but am not sure).
It was a great event. I got to scull with Greg Stone and other top guys... (Greg was third at last year's HOCR)
SEE:
http://concept2.co.uk/forum/blog.php?u=7679&b=66690
Re: Ranger's training thread
You show us 365 meters at an average pace of 2:05/500 and that includes at least a couple strokes at 1:45/23. Your HR is already 126 bpm in 90 seconds, do you honestly expect me to believe that your HR stabilizes at UT level when you're doing 1:48/22 or whatever the hell you claim?ranger wrote:
ranger
Just above this post you claim to be sharpening. You clearly know how to post a screenshot. You said you would show screenshots of sharpening workouts if and when you do them. Is there any possible reason you wont show a sharpening workout screenshot the next time you log on here?
- NavigationHazard
- 10k Poster
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Re: Ranger's training thread
You got the geezer bit right.
I hate to break it to you, but the time axis on the PM display extends for 1.2 seconds. Here's your stroke:
1) Within the limits of monitor resolution, you're still not up to the top of the display. You're one pixel block shy. I make that ~130 kgs handle force, not 135.
2) You've "achieved" this "miracle" of force production mainly by contracting your drive duration. Within the limits of monitor resolution, it looks as though you're at 0.55 seconds in this screenshot. The stroke cycle r23 takes 2.6 seconds. Thus your drive:recovery ratio is 0.55:2.05 or 1:3.72. Neither drive duration nor ratio are anywhere near what you've been touting them to be.
As I've been telling you for years now, you can't have it both ways on a drive. You can't simultaneously achieve maximum force and maximum duration. If you emphasize one it must come at the expense of the other. In a boat there's something to be said for early peak force -- but only if you can achieve it without doing counterproductive things like driving the boat down with excessive up/down swing of the head and trunk. And if you bash out the catches you'd better be sure your blade is in the water where it should be, or you're wasting effort.
Moreover, the dip and break in the force curve halfway down the tail are signs of a wobbly connection (could be hand height, change in trunk speed vis-a-vis handle, arm break....); the sharp downward turn at the end of the tail is the "contribution" of your extreme layback at the finish, which adds next to nothing positive and makes it difficult for you to get out of the bow.
I hate to break it to you, but the time axis on the PM display extends for 1.2 seconds. Here's your stroke:
1) Within the limits of monitor resolution, you're still not up to the top of the display. You're one pixel block shy. I make that ~130 kgs handle force, not 135.
2) You've "achieved" this "miracle" of force production mainly by contracting your drive duration. Within the limits of monitor resolution, it looks as though you're at 0.55 seconds in this screenshot. The stroke cycle r23 takes 2.6 seconds. Thus your drive:recovery ratio is 0.55:2.05 or 1:3.72. Neither drive duration nor ratio are anywhere near what you've been touting them to be.
As I've been telling you for years now, you can't have it both ways on a drive. You can't simultaneously achieve maximum force and maximum duration. If you emphasize one it must come at the expense of the other. In a boat there's something to be said for early peak force -- but only if you can achieve it without doing counterproductive things like driving the boat down with excessive up/down swing of the head and trunk. And if you bash out the catches you'd better be sure your blade is in the water where it should be, or you're wasting effort.
Moreover, the dip and break in the force curve halfway down the tail are signs of a wobbly connection (could be hand height, change in trunk speed vis-a-vis handle, arm break....); the sharp downward turn at the end of the tail is the "contribution" of your extreme layback at the finish, which adds next to nothing positive and makes it difficult for you to get out of the bow.
67 MH 6' 6"
Re: Ranger's training thread
Would someone remind me as to why one stroke is important?
We've been going on for years with these snap shots of one stroke... to no avail.
No results for a sustained piece at such lofty power..
Congratulations on taking a stroke, ranger. Where's 5k, 2k, (any k)?
We've been going on for years with these snap shots of one stroke... to no avail.
No results for a sustained piece at such lofty power..
Congratulations on taking a stroke, ranger. Where's 5k, 2k, (any k)?
- Carl Watts
- Marathon Poster
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Re: Ranger's training thread
The shape of your force curve is crap Ranger, it's an example of what NOT to do.
Why not look up the article on the Concept 2 Uk site, it looks like they used your curve in Figure 2.
Funny enough It's in the Schools learning to row section, but then again you started to row so late in life you missed it.
It was written by Eddie Fletcher of Fletcher Sport Science - coach to many indoor rowers including 5 time British IRC champion Graham Benton....... so obviously he will not know his arse from his elbow in your opinion because YOUR the best coach in the world.
Seven years and you still cannot even Erg properly, the fish will have no chance with you on the water.
Why not look up the article on the Concept 2 Uk site, it looks like they used your curve in Figure 2.
Funny enough It's in the Schools learning to row section, but then again you started to row so late in life you missed it.
It was written by Eddie Fletcher of Fletcher Sport Science - coach to many indoor rowers including 5 time British IRC champion Graham Benton....... so obviously he will not know his arse from his elbow in your opinion because YOUR the best coach in the world.
Seven years and you still cannot even Erg properly, the fish will have no chance with you on the water.
Carl Watts.
Age:56 Weight: 108kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log
Age:56 Weight: 108kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log
Re: Ranger's training thread
right, and mine is to pack 10 pounds of dynamite up your butt. i'd invite henry over from holland to light the fuse.ranger wrote:,TomR wrote:You could pack 10 pounds of dynamite up your ass and you're still not gonna row 6.16.
Nothing wrong with having ambitious goals.
at least my ambition is a physical possibility, while yours is just self-indulgent horseshit.
77, 6", 185
once upon a time . . .
once upon a time . . .
Re: Ranger's training thread
Kevin
Age: 57 - Weight: 187 lbs - Height: 5'10"
500m 01:33.5 Jun 2010 - 2K 06:59.5 Nov 2009 - 5K 19:08.4 Jan 2011
Age: 57 - Weight: 187 lbs - Height: 5'10"
500m 01:33.5 Jun 2010 - 2K 06:59.5 Nov 2009 - 5K 19:08.4 Jan 2011
Re: Ranger's training thread
Maybe Rich prefers the sport of erging to rowing. Maybe not, I wouldn't know, but why do you care? Whether you like it or not, erging is a sport. You constantly make anti-erg comments, yet you peruse an erg website. Your signature mentions another machine, yet you peruse the C2 website. Your signature line shows your PB's, were they accomplished on a C2? For somebody who doesn't appear to respect erging or the C2 you seem fairly proud of your C2 accomplishments.Rockin Roland wrote:Why do you develop fitness on the land when you don't know how to row or use it on the water?ranger wrote:To each his own.mikvan52 wrote:BTW: Doing all that biking is not going to help your sculling.
I disagree.
At the moment, I think that the biking is the most important thing I do.
When this cooling off occurs in my biking, I am into my third hour of exercise.
When I do my rowing OTW, I have already done three hours of exercise.
ranger
Sorry for the off-topic remarks, felt good to get that off my chest:)
Re: Ranger's training thread
When you are 60 years old, four hours of quality (e.g., 1110 cal/hour and above), full-body exercise a day, day after day, for years and years, decade after decade, makes you feel--and perform--like a 20-year-old.
ranger
ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)
Re: Ranger's training thread
After a while, when you are fully competent at both, to me, rowing OTErg and rowing OTW seem pretty muchf the same, although rowing OTW has a lot more to it until you master the skills you need to become unconsciously competent.aharmer wrote:Maybe Rich prefers the sport of erging to rowing.
And of course the setting of rowing OTW is a lot nicer.
Being outside, in a natural setting (rather than in a city), in and around water is always better (to me) than being inside, in an unnatural setting, not around water.
ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)
Re: Ranger's training thread
You must be on mind altering drugs tooranger wrote:When you are 60 years old, four hours of quality (e.g., 1110 cal/hour and above), full-body exercise a day, day after day, for years and years, decade after decade, makes you feel--and perform--like a 20-year-old.
ranger
You are neither 60 nor 20 NOR do you feel like either.
a twenty-year old would, if challenged, sit down on an erg an pull a 500m piece if asked..
You, OTOH, quibble and shudder and cry: "Oh, wait until "I'm fully trained!"
you are w/o credentials to make statements about how you "will" go under 6:40 as a lwt in the year 2010 or beyond.
Last edited by mikvan52 on September 18th, 2010, 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Ranger's training thread
* yet another ranger gemranger wrote: unconsciously competent.
Re: Ranger's training thread
"to me, rowing OTErg and rowing OTW seem pretty muchf the same"
add to that: ranger has never produced a single max otw performance in his life. He steadfastly refuses to do so.
That's his perogative.
We should recognize that, if he hasn't done all kinds of OTerg and OTW rowing at (say) 1k or 2k, he doesn't know WTF he's talking about.
THis leads me to conclude that he posts to provoke, not to inform...
I currently (2010) row a 3:40.18 1k on the water and 6:47.x 2k on the C2 erg...
Am I wrong to feel that I have a better perspective on such a comparison than R.Cureton?
add to that: ranger has never produced a single max otw performance in his life. He steadfastly refuses to do so.
That's his perogative.
We should recognize that, if he hasn't done all kinds of OTerg and OTW rowing at (say) 1k or 2k, he doesn't know WTF he's talking about.
THis leads me to conclude that he posts to provoke, not to inform...
I currently (2010) row a 3:40.18 1k on the water and 6:47.x 2k on the C2 erg...
Am I wrong to feel that I have a better perspective on such a comparison than R.Cureton?
Last edited by mikvan52 on September 18th, 2010, 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
3 Crash-B hammers
American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
62 yrs, 160 lbs, 6' ...
American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
62 yrs, 160 lbs, 6' ...
Re: Ranger's training thread
Hey, 2:00 @ 25 spm is great for 10K.mikvan52 wrote:Rich you asked about handicaps in the 9.5 k GMS challenge.
The worst thing for scullers and handicaps is if they don't ever get on the water an participate is that they cannot appreciate how they work in practice.
Seriously:
I am not a fan of handicaps... They only confuse results. Just post the raw times (I say)...
Here's how I did last year... But my calibration was off. I was slower than this I think (but am not sure).
It was a great event. I got to scull with Greg Stone and other top guys... (Greg was third at last year's HOCR)
SEE:
http://concept2.co.uk/forum/blog.php?u=7679&b=66690
What were the conditions (tailwind, current, etc.)?
At 18 seconds over erg times, that 's like 1:42 @ 25 spm (13.2 SPI) for 10K OTErg.
That's perfect rowing for a lightweight.
I have been getting to 2:02 @ 26 spm OTW, but that's as good as I can do at the moment, and even so, only briefly.
I get better each time out, though.
So, I would guess that I will continue to improve for a number of years.
ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)
Re: Ranger's training thread
Thanks for the compliment... the race is held on a still lake... if there was a breeze, it only rippled the water. I think my time pace at 0.968 calibration would be slower.... Back then I would have had a different one.ranger wrote:Hey, 2:00 @ 25 spm is great for 10K.mikvan52 wrote:Rich you asked about handicaps in the 9.5 k GMS challenge.
The worst thing for scullers and handicaps is if they don't ever get on the water an participate is that they cannot appreciate how they work in practice.
Seriously:
I am not a fan of handicaps... They only confuse results. Just post the raw times (I say)...
Here's how I did last year... But my calibration was off. I was slower than this I think (but am not sure).
It was a great event. I got to scull with Greg Stone and other top guys... (Greg was third at last year's HOCR)
SEE:
http://concept2.co.uk/forum/blog.php?u=7679&b=66690
What were the conditions (tailwind, current, etc.)?
ranger
We'll see how it goes tomorrow.
I'll shoot to hold 2:03 for as long as possible and then tough it out.
you confuse the heck out of me when you make kind comments.
Best of rowing to you... I hope you do get to where you see yourself as fully trained sometime soon.