Ranger's training thread

[Carl Watts]

I left this site a few months back because of this ranger character, but I came back today hoping he was gone so I could further my knowledge of rowing and the concept 2. Alas, this no talent ass hat is still here blowing smoke. So with that, I once again big you a fond (and permanent) farewell. I'll be telling people what a great rower the concept 2 is, but avoid the message forum like the plague.

Noooo don't go this Forum would be no fun without frecknclueless posting all the time.

I mean didn't you know your SPM is directly related to your HR ? It was a news flash for me that's going to revolutionise the way row...all PB's from now on are going to be at 12 SPM so my HR won't go above UT2.

Wow I'm amazed he got any WR's at all, just imagine how good he could have been if he had a coach, he may have actually become the legend he thinks he is.

Still what's only seven years (and still counting) of learning how to row well ?

[ranger]

Still what's only seven years (and still counting) of learning how to row well ?

A permanent accomplishment?

The mastering of a skill?

Once you learn to row well, you never have to learn again.

No more counting.

I now row well at low drag (118 df.).

No 60s veterans have ever rowed well.

No 50s veterans have ever rowed well.

A couple of 40s Seniors row well, or at least have in the past.

Elite (20s and 30s) Open and Masters ergers row well, but none of the other Open and Maters (20s and 30s) ergers out there thrashing away do.

Rowing well is 13 SPI for lightweights; 16 SPI for heavyweights.

118 df.

ranger

[ranger]

Prove it with a step test on the erg and a 5k SS...

You're exaggerating again...

Are you forgetting:



You couldn't match that (what I did) even back then...
Picasso had his "Blue Period"

ranger had his "For the Coaches Period"
Click HERE


And now we're supposed to believe you can do this at a 22.... now ??... 3 years into your decline?
(Guffaw!)

That's the intention, but not with 5K @ 22 spm.

If my HR is only UT2 (145 bpm), steady state, with perhaps a little drift (up to 155 bpm?) when I am rowing 1:48 @ 22 spm (12.5 SPI), I can train myself to do it for a FM.

I just need to keep putting in the meters, as I will do in my background rowing for the rest of the year until WIRC (and off into the future).

ranger

[ranger]

I now row well at low drag (118 df.).

[snip]

Rowing well at low drag (118 df.) is both more effective and more efficient than rowing poorly at max drag.

Why did it take you 7 years to learn that "low drag is more effective and more efficient"?

Hey, you do what you can do.

I am just happy to have learned at all.

No one else my age has.

No one else ten years younger than I am has.

A few who are twenty years younger than I am have learned to row well at low drag, but I am not sure that any of them are currently doing it.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

That's a pretty old screen shot--three years old.

At a decline with age of a couple of seconds over 2K per year, the prediction is that your 5K is now 1:48.5 @ 28 spm (9.8 SPI).

Is that right?

In a couple more years, when you are 60, as I am, that will be 1:49.5 @ 28 spm (9.5 SPI).

It is interesting that you also do your 2Ks at 9.5 SPI.

I am rowing with a stroke that is right around 33% stronger: 12.5 SPI.

ranger

[macroth]

If my HR is only UT2 (145 bpm), steady state, with perhaps a little drift (up to 155 bpm?) when I am rowing 1:48 @ 22 spm (12.5 SPI), I can train myself to do it for a FM.

No you can't. At 1:48@22spm, your HR is "drifting" (aka increasing) up to 155 bpm over 3-4 kilometers at the very most, and the only reason it doesn't keep increasing beyond your aerobic and anaerobic thresholds is that you stop to take a break. This is not steady state training, and it isn't UT2 intensity for you.

No amount of RWB will get you to a 1:48@22spm FM. But keep training like a complete moron. You're only depriving yourself of any serious chance at the 55s lwt 2K record, and maybe even the 60s lwt record.

[ranger]

And now we're supposed to believe you can do this at a 22.... now ??... 3 years into your decline?

As you know, and exemplify, technique is _very_ important in rowing.

Over the last three years, I have learned how to drop the drag, use a full slide, relax my shoulders, arms, and hands at the catch, and pull level (rather than up).

I have learned how to row well at low drag.

Physical decline is really very slight in the veteran ranks in your do 3-4 hours of hard exercise a day.

If you use it, you don't lose it.

Improvements in technique are also entirely independent of physical decline with age.

They occur in another dimension entirely.

If you get better at rowing while you age, your times do not even have to decline.

They can improve--dramatically.

ranger

[ranger]

If my HR is only UT2 (145 bpm), steady state, with perhaps a little drift (up to 155 bpm?) when I am rowing 1:48 @ 22 spm (12.5 SPI), I can train myself to do it for a FM.

No you can't. At 1:48@22spm, your HR is "drifting" (aka increasing) up to 155 bpm over 3-4 kilometers at the very most, and the only reason it doesn't keep increasing beyond your aerobic and anaerobic thresholds is that you stop to take a break. This is not steady state training, and it isn't UT2 intensity for you.

No amount of RWB will get you to a 1:48@22spm FM. But keep training like a complete moron. You're only depriving yourself of any serious chance at the 55s lwt 2K record, and maybe even the 60s lwt record.

No, my HR doesn't drift up over 3-4K, but it might over a full marathon, because of heat, dehydration, and the like.

That's fine, though.

I can row a FM with a HR of 155 bpm, when I am fully trained up for it.

Back in 2003, when I was rowing 1:48 @ 22 spm, rowing poorly at max drag, sure, my HR spiked up if I tried to do a long piece.

In fact, it maxed out at about 5K and I had to stop, take a break, and begin again.

To do 15K, 1:48 @ 22 spm, which I did quite a bit, I had to do 3 x 5K, with breaks in between the 5Ks.

Not now.

Rowing well at low drag (118 df.) is much more effective and efficient.

ranger

[macroth]

If my HR is only UT2 (145 bpm), steady state, with perhaps a little drift (up to 155 bpm?) when I am rowing 1:48 @ 22 spm (12.5 SPI), I can train myself to do it for a FM.

No you can't. At 1:48@22spm, your HR is "drifting" (aka increasing) up to 155 bpm over 3-4 kilometers at the very most, and the only reason it doesn't keep increasing beyond your aerobic and anaerobic thresholds is that you stop to take a break. This is not steady state training, and it isn't UT2 intensity for you.

No amount of RWB will get you to a 1:48@22spm FM. But keep training like a complete moron. You're only depriving yourself of any serious chance at the 55s lwt 2K record, and maybe even the 60s lwt record.

No, lies lies lies.

That's fine, though.

I can lie lie lie.

Back in 2003, when I was rowing 1:48 @ 22 spm, rowing poorly at max drag, sure, my HR spiked up if I tried to do a long piece.

In fact, it maxed out at about 5K and I had to stop, take a break, and begin again.

To do 15K, 1:48 @ 22 spm, which I did quite a bit, I had to do 3 x 5K, with breaks in between the 5Ks.

lie.

Rowing well at low drag (118 df.) is much more effective and efficient.

ranger

Liar.

[ranger]

Yea.

With 12.5 SPI @ 22 spm (118 df.) as UT2, I now prefer 12.5 SPI @ 26 spm (118 df.) for UT1.

12.5 SPI @ 26 spm is 1:43 pace.

That's perfect.

1:43/17:10 is my 5K pb.

Standard UT1 workouts are repeat 5Ks, for example, with 2-4 reps.

Time to start doing 5K @ 26 spm, both OTErg and OTW.

Over and over, over and over (while doing a lot of 1:48 @ 22 spm in the background, for warm ups, off days, etc.).

This will be great training for the Head of the Grand.

1:43 is UT1 for a 6:12 2K.

1:43 would be a 60s heavyweight WR for 5K.

T.J. Oesterling's 60s hwt WR for 5K is 17:14.5.

BTW, how big is T.J.?

I bet he's _huge_.

ranger

[ranger]

26 spm is a very comfortable rate for me.

In fact, it is what I prefer for everyday rowing.

I like UT1 efforts.

When I started rowing, that's _all_ I did.

60min rows at about 26 spm.

One or two of them a day--for a couple of years.

Then, after I sharpened for a couple of months and did my first race, I found that I was 4 seconds under the 50s lwt WR for 2K.

6:27.5

And that was rowing poorly, pulling at max drag.

I was 51 years old.

I now row well at low drag (118 df.).

I am now a couple months shy of 60.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, something seems to need clarification.

Learning to row well at low drag is not just rowing at low drag, whichever way you want, as poorly as you can.

That's ridiculous.

If you row slowly, with no significant power per stroke, rowing at low drag is actually much _easier_ than rowing at high drag.

What is difficult is not rowing any old which way, as poorly as you can, at low drag, but rowing _well_ at low drag.

Rowing well for lightweights is 13 SPI.

Rowing well for heavyweights is 16 SPI.

The trick is learning how to get strong, long, balanced, and fast enough with your leverage and consistent and precise enough with your timing to generate that much power against such low resistance.

Learning to row well at low drag (e.g., 118 df.) is a significant skill, that requires the cultivation and maintenance of a range of challenging physical capacities, like consistently hitting a 135 mph serve in tennis or consistently hitting a 350 yd. drive in golf, or making all of your wide open 3-pointers in basketball.

If you are an unskilled, fat-assed, lazy slug, rowing well at low drag is unimaginable.

ranger

[macroth]

BTW, something seems to need clarification.


Learning to row well at low drag (e.g., 118 df.) is a significant skill, like consistently hitting a 135 mph serve in tennis or consistently hitting a 350 yd. drive in golf, or making all of your wide open 3-pointers in basketball.

ranger

Thank you for the clarification. All are equally out of your reach. If only that were clear in everyone's mind, including your own.

[ranger]

Just in a routine way in routine workouts (3 x 5K, etc.) pull a 60s heavyweight WR at 26 spm and a UT1 heart rate, over and over, over and over, then in an all out 5K trial at 30 spm and an AT heart rate, I should be five seconds per 500m faster.

1:38?

16:20?

ranger

[macroth]

Just in a routine way, fly over the rainbow on my magic donkey and play with the clouds. Oh how I love my magic donkey!

ranger

That's nice dear.