Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

As a 50-55 lwt , Paul Siebach beat ranger's best ever lwt times twice.

No, not at the same age--or at the same level of experience.

I wasn't even racing when I was 50.

My first race, as a heavyweight, was when I was 51.

When I was just 52, I rowed a lwt 6:30, faster than Paul rowed last year, when he was 51.

Then I rowed a lwt 6:29 and a lwt 6:28, when I was just a month or so shy of 53.

These were all very novice rows, though, while Paul had been racing for years before he pulled the 50s lwt WR when he was 50.

Back in 2003, I didn't know how to row.

I just yanked the chain at max drag.

That is why I have spent the last seven years learning how to row.

I now row well at low drag (118 df.).

It will be interesting to see what difference this makes in my 2K time.

I don't think decline with age since 2003 has been much at all, as we will see when I am fully trained.

As it stands now, given my 2K target, race pace 500s, 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) @ 1:34 will predict a pb for me.

So, I suppose that is the first goal during sharpening.

32-34 spm should do it.

When I get there, I can try some at home 2K trials to see if I can still pull sub-6:30.

31 spm should do it, given my current stroking power.

Then I can push those race pace 500s out to 20 repetitions.

That will predict my 2K target: 6:16.

A firmer prediction will be 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) @ 1:31.

My pb for 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) is 1:32.5, but that was rowing badly at max drag.

ranger

[ranger]

Roughly another 1k from/to the far side of the bridge in question to Foster Bridge. So either your Speed Coach is off a bit, or you're steering a different line, or both.

Sure, all kinds of things--different line, turning around, etc.

By my speed coach, yesterday, the three loops were 15.5K.

I think the calibration of my speed coach is fine.

Or if not, it is plenty close enough for my purposes.

I am just a beginner OTW.

I have never raced anywhere.

I am just learning to row.

Rough estimates are fine, as far as speed goes, given my level of expertise.

I am getting better every day.

The best thing I can do for my OTW rowing is not worry about time/speed and concentrate on distance--at 22 spm or so.

I need to do 20K a day OTW at 22 spm.

I will try to get to that before the end of the month.

I just need to practice a lot.

ranger

[ranger]

I have the same hull as you do and have calibrated my speed coach..

Do calibration factors differ with the weight of the rower?

Or just with the shape of the hull?

At the moment, you are quite a bit lighter than I am, although that will change over the next two months.

By the middle of November, we should be the same weight.

ranger

[ranger]

It is pretty silly the way people like Henry talk about how easy it is to learn to row well on the erg, at least in the only relevant meaning of "know," that is, "do."

Unless your are someone like Andy Ripley, you can't row well if you just yank the chain.

In fact, if you are at all normal in size, strength, and so forth, you can't row well unless you do everything possible to maximize the speed and leverage of all of yoiur available levers.

You can't cut the slide.

You can't up the drag.

You can't neglect your back.

You can't drive off your heels at the catch.

You can't avoid driving off your heels in the middle of the drive and into the finish.

You can't neglect your toes and calves when you swing your back.

You can't dump the finish.

You can't hang in the bow at the finish.

You can't hunch or tense up your shoulders at the catch.

You can't pull too early with your arms.

You can't pull too early with your back.

You can't be slow with any of your levers.

You can't avoid rhythmizing the whole stroke cycle, so that it is right on a beat.

You can't neglect organizing your breathing.

And so on, and so forth.

Rowing well for a lightweight male is 13 SPI.

Rowing well for a heavyweight male is 16 SPI.

So.

Fact is:

Almost no one rows well.

16 SPI @ 37 spm for 2K is 1:24/5:36.

13 SPI @ 38 spm for 2K is 5:56.

ranger

[hjs]

It is pretty silly the way people like Henry talk about how easy it is to learn to row well on the erg, at least in the only relevant meaning of "know," that is, "do."

Unless your are someone like Andy Ripley, you can't row well if you just yank the chain.

ranger

The moment you find people who get better after the first stages you are right, the simple facts show that within a few years you can get close to your maximum bestform. For this even you yourself are a good example. The technique you did use in your early days and the techique you always end up doing at the end of the season to get anything decent out of your racing is the technique that's best for your. You have proven that 7 years in a row and this season will be number 8.

You end up ankerhouling at max drag in the 6.4x.x


Wanne bet ?

[ranger]

Wanne bet ?

Sure.

On our honor.

This year, I'll race at full slide, 12-13 SPI, and low drag (118 df.).

I won't be anchor-hauling at all.

My hands, shoulders, and arms are now relaxed, both at the catch and during the swing of my back.

I also relax my hands at the finish, after the arm pull, and during feathering and the recovery.

I no longer get blisters on my hands of any sort, no matter how long I row.

ranger

[hjs]

Wanne bet ?

Sure.

On our honor.

This year, I'll race at full slide, 12-13 SPI, and low drag (118 df.).

I won't be anchor-hauling at all.

My shoulders and arms are relaxed at the catch.

ranger

Honour ? you

Sure you will start at drag 118 but that will end up in tears above 7.00 after that you have no choise in going back to your strenght or stop racing. If historie repeats itself, you end up hauling at your max. A nice and slow stroke with lot's of back and a nice headkick to finish it off

[mikvan52]

I have the same hull as you do and have calibrated my speed coach..

Do calibration factors differ with the weight of the rower? Or just with the shape of the hull?
At the moment, you are quite a bit lighter than I am, although that will change over the next two months.
By the middle of November, we should be the same weight.

A Calibration setting does not vary for the payload of the boat. It's forward movement that's involved here.

From what I've learned through the years, the differences can be linked (on the same hull) to where the impeller is placed. IOW: the distance from the bow ball to the impeller. Moving the impeller to a different place on the hull would require a different calibration factor. Why? => turbulence created by the boat design varies at different points along the hull.
It is impractical to move an impeller very far as their is limited space in the foot well where this arrangement can be mounted. A builder, like Fluid, factory mounts their impellers in the same location each time they complete a new boat.

ALSO:
NK has an 800# if you need more information on our product. A careful read of the NK manual should also help.
Which NK product do you have?

[mikvan52]

Rowing well for a lightweight male is 13 SPI.

Rowing well for a heavyweight male is 16 SPI.

So.

Fact is:

Almost no one rows well.

16 SPI @ 37 spm for 2K is 1:24/5:36.

13 SPI @ 38 spm for 2K is 5:56.

ranger

Proof positive that, for ranger, rowing well is related to an abstruse quotient of watts/stroke rate that has little relation to the world where a boat actually moves through the water.

Why not substitute other considerations?
suggestions:
#1 : the least amt of energy (watts) it takes to maintain race pace (seconds/500m) on the water
#2: Beauty: personal preference of rowing style

Looking at #1:
This is why scullers rowing at lower rates frequently win races over less adept ones sculling at higher rates.

It is interesting to me that ranger omits any honest discussion of this alternative view on this thread.

Another way of looking at this. If an erger bangs out meters (w/o regard to form) at lower rates (to get high spi) he or she often adopts a form that destroys any chance of moving a boat quickly on the water. This form is "remembered" in one's muscle memory and cannot be eliminated when switching to the water.

It is, of course, unnecessary to need a good otw form if you are not interested in it...
It bothers me to see blanket statements about "rowing well" which do not include rowing... ranger means: "erging well"

[ranger]

Sure you will start at drag 118 but that will end up in tears above 7.00

You're nutty, Henry.

Yep.

7:00 at 13 SPI is 23 spm.

ranger

[ranger]

A Calibration setting does not vary for the payload of the boat. It's forward movement that's involved here.

From what I've learned through the years, the differences can be linked (on the same hull) to where the impeller is placed. IOW: the distance from the bow ball to the impeller. Moving the impeller to a different place on the hull would require a different calibration factor. Why? => turbulence created by the boat design varies at different points along the hull.
It is impractical to move an impeller very far as their is limited space in the foot well where this arrangement can be mounted. A builder, like Fluid, factory mounts their impellers in the same location each time they complete a new boat.

O.K.

So I should use your calibration factor, and that should do it.

What is your calibration factor?

ranger

[ranger]

It is interesting to me that ranger omits any honest discussion of this alternative view on this thread.

It is not an alternative view.

If you go fast at a low rate, you have a high SPI.

We don't disagree.

We agree.

On this point, at least.

The other issue is aerobic capacity, how high you can lift the rate while rowing well (i.e., maintaining a high SPI).

Rowers can also differ in aerobic capacity, especially older rowers.

Given two rowers who row equally well, the one with more aerobic capacity, the one who can lift the rate the highest, will be faster.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

You can't go fast at a low rate with a low SPI.

Pace = rate x SPI

If both rate and SPI are low, pace is low--doubly so.

Those who do this _both_ row poorly and have poor aerobic capacity.

They should pick another sport.

Or learn to row and get in much better shape.

ranger

[hjs]

Sure you will start at drag 118 but that will end up in tears above 7.00

You're nutty, Henry.

Yep.

7:00 at 13 SPI is 23 spm.

ranger

Nutty ? I am simply right about you................ season after season.

[lancs]

As it stands now, given my 2K target, race pace 500s, 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) @ 1:34 will predict a pb for me.

Over at least the last 5 years now, you've repeatedly promised 8x500 sessions at a pace that is clearly way beyond your capabilities. Of course, in keeping with every single other timed piece, you've delivered exactly zero completed sessions.

I'm interested to know what happens to these promised sessions; do you get to rep 3 of the 8 and give up or do you complete all 8 at a pace that is in line with your most recent 2k, ie 6:41?

I personally think you'd struggle to break 1:30 for a single rep these days.