Ranger's training thread

[aharmer]

I assume that the HR I will see during sharpening at the end of the last couple of reps of 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) @ 1:32 will be pretty close to max.

Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!! Okay, let's play this game again. Do you have any idea when this workout might happen? Any chance you could put it on your calendar, let us know the date, post the screenshot with HR data?

By the way, any interest in knocking out a 2k at 13 SPI r27? For somebody that has already done the training to pull a 2k at 13 SPI r32, this should be incredibly easy. As a matter of fact, if you look at watts, which is the right way to do it even though you refuse to, you pulling a 13 SPI r27 would be equivalent to a 7:00 erger sitting down and pulling a 7:26.

In other words, you should be able to do it in your sleep without warmup. You could walk down to the cave at any time and just knock it out, take a picture and shut us all up. Oh yeah, you'd also be setting an unofficial WR at the same time. Unless of course we care about your elevated weight, then you have to start looking at a different set of records.

So how about it? Care to take the challenge, or will you revert to the normal tactic of posting 10 messages in succession so the challenge is off the main page where it will be forgotten.

[ranger]

Fraud. You did no such 5ks and posted no such screenshots. Not here, not on the UK Forum.
Fraud fraud fraud.

Yes, I did.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

No you didn't. Prove me wrong by linking the screenshot. Fraud.

Edit: Out of the horse's mouth, or some such orifice:

I haven't done even one 8 x 500m workout, much less a bunch of 20 x 500m sessions.

I haven't done one 4 x 1K session.

I haven't done one 4 x 2K session.

I haven't done one distance trial, much less 5K and 6K trials.

I have just done some free format faster rowing, to get mechanically used to rating 30 spm or so, which I needed to do to pull 6:41.

Fully trained, I will rate 36 spm in a 2K, but I will need to have some anaerobic capabilities to do that.

I haven't yet done the work needed to tune up my anaerobic capacities.

I haven't done any maxHR rowing or extended distance rowing over my anaerobic threshold (AT).

In fact, it has been just over the last week or so that I have gotten my HR up _to_ my anaerobic threshold for extended periods.

For the original post see http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=132277#p132277

[mikvan52]

Weight does matter...(on the water)

Not like it does OTErg.

To everyone:

TSO must, indeed, be brain dead...

He was talking about the water.
I responded about the water.
result: He contradicts me with switching to speaking about the erg.....

[chgoss]

You did not

Yes, I did.ranger

Bah. You just missed it, Henry.

Apparently everyone missed it Rich..

[mikvan52]

Weight does matter...

Not like it does OTErg.

55s hwts on the erg have pulled 6:18.

You won the 55s lwt hammer last year with 6:50.

Are there 55s heavyweights OTW who can outrow you over 2K by 32 seconds, over 1K by 16 seconds?

Hardly.

To do that for 1K, they would have to row 3:24.

1:42 pace

In relative terms, OTW punishes weight; the erg doesn't.

If erg races were scored in terms of watts/kg rather than watts alone, erg races would be decided in ways that are similar to OTW races.

This is indeed done in various European venues, as I understand.

Italy?

On the erg, in terms of watt/kg, you beat people like Stan Vegar by quite a margin.

ranger

Rich, Rich, Rich...
My advice to you is to go hide behind some abstruse perathlon table in your bare feet w/a puppy dog to pet until you get over this: "Such an such is equivalent to such and such" ~ watts/kilo crap.

There a simple way to determine who is faster on the water... Line 'em up and race!

There are no medals for time trials done on one's own...
The competitive world doesn't give a FF about equivalent performances handicapped by weight...

Give it a rest. Move on. Race some other people instead of staring at your erg's monitor while you lurk underground.
You are so focused on the erg that you even got this back-wack-wards:
You wrote:
"In relative terms, OTW punishes weight; the erg doesn't."
It's the erg that gives the break to heavy people because their score does not reflect their weight as if it were in an actual boat.... So the erg punishes weight not the other way around... Get it?

Read the October 2010 ROWING NEWS... It has an article on lightweights....
Section Heading page 52:
THE IMPACT OF THE ERG
'The erg measures power and bigger athletes, especially heavier ones, should be able to generate more watts on a machine. When the Concept 2 erg became the de facto training tool in the 1990's, it made it possible to quantify some previously unproveable assumptions. By looking at weight-adjusted formulas, many coaches began to realize that the 6:10 190-pounder wasn't as impressive as the 6:16 guy 40 pounds lighter. (snip) "An erg score may buy a guy a seat race, but not a seat. They've got to show that they can make a boat go faster" '
(The "erg score may buy.." part is from Chris Purcella of Marietta who blends both lwts and heavies together in his school's program...)

[aharmer]

"Such an such is equivalent to such and such"

MVB, glad you mentioned this. I've always wondered about this but didn't bring it up because many people here are lightweight or older than 40 when it is generally accepted that people begin to slow down on the erg.

My feeling has always been that your erg times are all that matters, whether you're 20 or 80, 120 lbs or 250 lbs. If you erg slower because you're lighter or older, then you erg slower because you're older or slower. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a fact of life. Why do there have to be so many categories so everybody can feel like they're the best? If my buddy is 6'7" and 260 lbs and faster on the erg, I'm not going to claim I'm a superior erger because I'm lighter or older if my time is slower than his.

In a previous life I was a golfer. A buddy of mine was about 15 strokes better than me, but I would routinely "beat" him because of the handicap system. I never once felt good about "winning" when I still got my ass kicked on the golf course.

Probably not a popular opinion here, but thought I'd get under Rich's skin a little by taking the focus off of him for a few minutes:)

[ranger]

Why do there have to be so many categories so everybody can feel like they're the best?

I agree.

The reason I want to pull 6:16 OTErg is not to be the best but to outrow Eskild, given that he is now an old man (37 years old).

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... CCMQ9QEwAw

He sucks, too.

But if I can beat him, I won't suck quite as much.

You have to have limited competitive goals if you are 60 years old (or even 37).

ranger

[ranger]

It's the erg that gives the break to heavy people because their score does not reflect their weight as if it were in an actual boat.... So the erg punishes weight not the other way around... Get it?

Sure, if "give a break to" means "punish."



I speak English, though, at least sometimes.

So...

ranger

[ranger]

No you didn't. Prove me wrong by linking the screenshot. Fraud.

Edit: Out of the horse's mouth, or some such orifice:

I haven't done even one 8 x 500m workout, much less a bunch of 20 x 500m sessions.

I haven't done one 4 x 1K session.

I haven't done one 4 x 2K session.

I haven't done one distance trial, much less 5K and 6K trials.

I have just done some free format faster rowing, to get mechanically used to rating 30 spm or so, which I needed to do to pull 6:41.

Fully trained, I will rate 36 spm in a 2K, but I will need to have some anaerobic capabilities to do that.

I haven't yet done the work needed to tune up my anaerobic capacities.

I haven't done any maxHR rowing or extended distance rowing over my anaerobic threshold (AT).

In fact, it has been just over the last week or so that I have gotten my HR up _to_ my anaerobic threshold for extended periods.

For the original post see http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=132277#p132277

The 5K wasn't any sort of trial.

It was just an easy 5k, where I pulled it down to 1:44 at the end, taking my HR up into the 170s.

A 5K trial would be an minute faster.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

And the screen shot and report are where? Evidently only in your head....

[mikvan52]

The reason I want to pull 6:16 OTErg is not to be the best but to outrow Eskild, given that he is now an old man (37 years old).


He sucks, too.


But if I can beat him, I won't suck quite as much.

ranger...
are you listening?
Good.
You are ill.
Go get help.


you must feel something akin to power by saying such things...
It is certainly not convincing.

[mikvan52]

"Such an such is equivalent to such and such"

My feeling has always been that your erg times are all that matters, whether you're 20 or 80, 120 lbs or 250 lbs. If you erg slower because you're lighter or older, then you erg slower because you're older or slower. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a fact of life. Why do there have to be so many categories so everybody can feel like they're the best? If my buddy is 6'7" and 260 lbs and faster on the erg, I'm not going to claim I'm a superior erger because I'm lighter or older if my time is slower than his.

(I'll stay away from golf... It is not an aerobic capacity type of sport)

I agree with you: Categories (on the erg) are just categories.. But they match what is commonly accepted on the water.

It may do us well to observe the fall-off in VO2 max due to age... Age categories allow people to erg with their peers in this regard..
No one (ranger included) can claim (supported with real evidence) the same or better VO2 max at age 60 than they had fully trained at 30..
Go to any comprehensive anatomy and physiology text book... The graph is there...

Ever notice that the ranking parameters can be user defined?
IOW: If I want to see all men light and heavy on one list, between ages 40 and 90, I can create such a list.
No 59 yr old midweight will be near the top...
So why race him against the top guys?... The outcome is predetermined... by age-related physiology..

But perhaps I misconstrue your focus.

For an older guy to say "I'm better" merely because his time is age adjusted... means he's delusional unless he/she says "in relation to people of our own age group, as a percentile...

And..
It also depends what an individual thinks rowing is... Rotating a sprocket or moving a vessel over the surface of a body of water.
It's not both... Anyone is free to choose a primary preference.
There is some equivalency but it is not absolute, as everyone who is honest and knowledgeable about BOTH sports knows.
IMO: One of the errors/bad choices of the US's 8 going to Sydney was to sub a guy in because he had a superior erg score.
(It wasn't the only mishap).

I've said this all before...

Then there's the factor: wanting to be seen as the best... Many fall prey to this... The need to have a medal in one's sweaty palm...
"whatever floats your boat."

Personally, I wonder why ranger feels this need to say: "My goal is to be the best in both sports. I will do this by training on the erg and concentrating on SPI to the exclusion of (a whole host of training routines and theories)."

All coaches everywhere know this cannot be done for some simple and obvious reasons (involving the sprocket vs boat concept)...

I'll leave it here...

[leadville]

Why do there have to be so many categories so everybody can feel like they're the best?

I agree.

The reason I want to pull 6:16 OTErg is not to be the best but to outrow Eskild, given that he is now an old man (37 years old).

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... CCMQ9QEwAw

He sucks, too.

But if I can beat him, I won't suck quite as much.

You have to have limited competitive goals if you are 60 years old (or even 37).

ranger

you are one screwed up pseudo hominid, rangerboy. the self loathing is pathological. Do you wear a hairshirt when you row?

get some help. I'm sure UM has excellent benefits - use them.

[aharmer]

MVB, I hear ya. I should have prefaced my commentary by saying I don't consider them to be "right", just my opinion. Personally, I just want to go the fastest I can. For example, If I were closer to a lightweight, I would never intentionally lose a few pounds and possibly give up time on a 2k, even though my slightly slower time would look better as a lightweight. Just me, to each his own.