Ranger's training thread

[Bob S.]

Perforce half of your rowing is goint to be against whatever flow there may be.

It always has to be considerably more than half.

Bob S.

Correction: That would apply most of the time, but not if there is a strong countercurrent wind. Then it would depend on the balance of the two forces and on the configuration of the vessel.

[Citroen]

Perforce half of your rowing is goint to be against whatever flow there may be.

It always has to be considerably more than half.

Bob S.

Correction: That would apply most of the time, but not if there is a strong countercurrent wind. Then it would depend on the balance of the two forces and on the configuration of the vessel.

Unless you always turn the boat within it's own length and return on the exact path followed from start to finish then there's also going to be a couple of cross-river segments to the course taken to return to the start. I'm also assuming there'll be some designated pattern to avoid the downstream rowers encountering any upstream rowers or any bridges or islands or other fixed objects (and enforcement of that protocol even if you're the only boat out with no other traffic).

[Byron Drachman]

Nav: Perforce half of your rowing is going to be against whatever flow there may be.

It always has to be considerably more than half.

Bob S.

Correction: That would apply most of the time, but not if there is a strong countercurrent wind. Then it would depend on the balance of the two forces and on the configuration of the vessel.

Unless you always turn the boat within it's own length and return on the exact path followed from start to finish then there's also going to be a couple of cross-river segments to the course taken to return to the start. I'm also assuming there'll be some designated pattern to avoid the downstream rowers encountering any upstream rowers or any bridges or islands or other fixed objects (and enforcement of that protocol even if you're the only boat out with no other traffic).

Hi Dougie,
Yes, there is a designated pattern. The river is wide and there are buoys so there has never been any problem.The competitors go under a reasonably wide bridge at a leisurely pace to the starting line and there is plenty of time to get up to full speed after going under the bridge before the running start. There are no bridges after that. The race is downstream and there is usually a brisk tail-wind. There is one gradual bend about half way, but other than that it is a straight shot with plenty of room. The distance is about 3.8 K. It would be hard to find a head race more suitable for a first event.

[BrianStaff]

See you at BIRC.ranger

No you won`t - because you won`t be there...another DNS

[NavigationHazard]

Actually on a tidal river like the Passaic, it's quite possible to find that 100% of your row is against the flow. Go upstream at low tide and you're against the current; time it wrong and the incoming tide can catch up with you right around your turnaround point....

[Bob S.]

Actually on a tidal river like the Passaic, it's quite possible to find that 100% of your row is against the flow. Go upstream at low tide and you're against the current; time it wrong and the incoming tide can catch up with you right around your turnaround point....

Yeah, the tide is another matter. At Long Beach, a side route is up a flood control channel. It is actually the outlet of a once natural stream and it has a fairly strong downstream current right after a heavy rainstorm. The rest of the time the current is strictly tidal and quite weak since there is very little area involved.

The main course is around Naples Island. One would think that the effect of tide would be more or less cancelled out, since it is a loop course, but I could swear that on every circuit I ever made around the island I was rowing against the current all the time. I guess that I could call that "perceptive tide." Of course I could have checked it at any time by coming to a stop and checking my drift (when there was no wind), but then I would not have had any excuse for my slow circuits.

Bob S.

[ranger]

The thing about rivers is that you can't just stop and get out of the boat when you get tired. If you're doing out-and-backs, when you're done rowing out you still have to row back. You may think that your proposed "paddles" don't count. They do. Even if they're the rowing equivalent of junk meters you still will have to stay upright, maintain form, and move the boat. I don't know the HOTG course, but I'm going to assume that the river has at least some current in it. Perforce half of your rowing is goint to be against whatever flow there may be.

You will NOT be able to row "full pressure" for 3 x 5k in a single session regardless of rating. The Alan Campbells of the world can't do it and don't waste time thinking about it. What makes you think you're better? And more importantly, why on earth do you think 3 x 5k (paddle a 5k) is a worthwhile session goal? One meaningful, continuous move-the-boat 5k with decent form and decent grunt is going to be worth tons more than 30k worth of meters piled up for their own sake. Oh, and you'll do yourself a favor by timing yourself against the bank markers for start and finish. That'll be how they'll time you during a race, not with a miscalibrated speed coach.

Nav--

If I just go up to Lansing and row OTW instead of erging and biking, too, I will have no problem doing the 4K Head od the Grand course three times with a paddle in between, especially if I start at pretty low rates and, over the weeks to come, slowly build up to 28 spm.
OT
For some time now, I have been doing about 3.5 hours of pretty stiff physical work a day--OTBike, OTErg, OTW.

OTErg, I now need to be doing something like the same (3 x 5K) OTErg on a daily basis during the week as well.

I now need to move myself from the 3-to-1 ratio at 20 spm that I have been doing to the 2-to-1 ratio at 28 spm that I will shoot for over a middle distance race: 4K/5K/6K/30min, etc.

If I hold my technique together, OTErg, I go 1:50 @ 20 spm, 1:39 at 28 spm.

13 SPI

118 df.

I don't care about the exact times I get OTW over the Head of the Grand course.

For the purposes of timing, my speed coach will be fine.

ranger

[Citroen]

For some time now, I have been doing about 3.5 hours of pretty stiff physical work a day--OTBike, OTErg, OTW.

Mathematics has never been your strong subject. How long is 3 lots of 60 minutes? How long is three lots of 90 minutes. The answer is NOT three and a half hours for either of those multiplications.

[NavigationHazard]

What I actually wrote is that you will NOT be able to do 3 x the HOTG course "at full pressure"/paddle back, regardless of rating. If you do it once at full pressure you should barely be able to row another stroke. If you can continue to row, you didn't do it at full pressure.

[ranger]

Yea.

1:48 @ 21 spm (13 SPI) is going to be _great_ background rowing for this year, as I sharpen hard.

It really makes me take good strokes.

No high HR at all.

Just something in and around UT2.

The challenge is technical and skeletal-muscular, not physiological.

Effectiveness and efficiency, not aerobic capacity.

Now that I am rowing at low drag (118 df.), 1:48 @ 21 spm now comes along just naturally, if I attend to technique.

Delighted with that.

This is perfect rowing for a lightweight of any age.

As I remember, Xeno said that his Olympic coaches wanted the singles guys to do 19 spm, for hours and hours, in their OTW sessions, but he always preferred 21 spm.

I like 21 spm, too.

For me, 19 spm is too slow.

ranger

[ranger]

Given 21 spm as a base, it might be good to start there when I do my three trips down the Head of the Grand course in Lansing on Monday.

Then I can up that by one spm each week until the race.

Sept. 13 21 spm
Sept. 17 22 spm
Sept. 24 23 spm
Oct. 04 24 spm
Oct. 11 25 spm

That should be good gradual preparation for the race itself.

Then, in the race itself, I could hold that 25 spm until I am past the bridge and in open water.

Then I could lift the rate to whatever I can tolerate, given my fitness, for the last part of the course.

I think I might be able to do 28 spm from the bridge to the finish.

During the week, I would want to do some 1Ks and 2Ks at 28 spm.

I could do that out at Portage Lake, where I have open water.

Portage Lake is about 2.5K long.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4 ... =fbx_album

In good conditions, if I am rowing well, I do 2:04 @ 25 spm OTW.

At 28 spm, I do 1:58.

ranger

[ranger]

What I actually wrote is that you will NOT be able to do 3 x the HOTG course "at full pressure"/paddle back, regardless of rating. If you do it once at full pressure you should barely be able to row another stroke. If you can continue to row, you didn't do it at full pressure.

Don't you do any full pressure rowing on the erg at 21-25 spm?

If you row at full pressure for 3.8K you are done?

Why?

The recommendation is that you train yourself to do 20K at full pressure when you are only rating 21-25 spm.

At 21 spm, your HR should be UT2.

At 25 spm, your HR should be middlin' UT1.

3.8K is an AT race.

That's 26-28 spm, perhaps even 30 spm, if you can hack it.

ranger

[mrfit]

ranger,

You do not understand the term full pressure...that's all.

[mikvan52]

Sept. 13 21 spm
(snip)
Then, in the race itself, I could hold ( ) 25 spm until I am past the bridge and in (front of the finish line camera).

So, here we have it:
Rosy-fingered dawn begins to tickle ranger's impervious cranium:
"Oops! I have to actually scull a full head race! OMG-WTF!!! Therefore I will DROP my rate to 21 my first time out (going against my ranger-wok training mantra of high rate)."
.

.
Rich, You are great entertainment!

And! you "think" you'll (head)race at 30 spm or higher by "the fall" of 2011!


And! only a few weeks ago you characterized yourself as "as fast as Jim Dietz" (20x-something HOCR medalist)

Oh, I forgot, this is a "limit"~"long-term goal" because you are getting faster with age.... I suppose we'll just have to wait until you turn 90 years old..... when you'll be really, super-extra-UNPRECEDENTALLY-fast.


I guess we should go easy on you since you've only been sculling for 7 years.... which makes you a beginner even though others make it to international competition in less that length of time and with fewer meters than you claim to have rowed...

hmmmmmmmm-doggie... The stream of whoppers flows continually out of the headwaters of Ann Arbor!

[hjs]

What I actually wrote is that you will NOT be able to do 3 x the HOTG course "at full pressure"/paddle back, regardless of rating. If you do it once at full pressure you should barely be able to row another stroke. If you can continue to row, you didn't do it at full pressure.

Don't you do any full pressure rowing on the erg at 21-25 spm?

If you row at full pressure for 3.8K you are done?

Why?

The recommendation is that you train yourself to do 20K at full pressure when you are only rating 21-25 spm.

At 21 spm, your HR should be UT2.

At 25 spm, your HR should be middlin' UT1.

3.8K is an AT race.

That's 26-28 spm, perhaps even 30 spm, if you can hack it.

ranger

If you row one minute at full pressure you should be done. If not you simply don,t use full pressure. Which indeed you never do, take a few strokes ....... stop.............type some nonsens is all you do.