Ranger's training thread

[NavigationHazard]

I'll go up to Lansing every Monday for the next month to do the Head of the Grand course--over and over.
So, race day, I'll know exactly what I can do--and not, at least in good conditions. Three times down the course (with a paddle back to the start) on each visit to Lansing should be a good workout.

Of course, 3 out-and-back trips on a head-race course would be 6 x 5k = a 30k session in a 1x. 30k is a LOT of meters in a single, especially if there are wind and current. As far as I can recall, that's twice as far as fableboy has ever rowed OTW in a single day. To make it possible, perhaps he will emulate his legendary, pedal-free 20 mph hour on a road bike and row without oarlocks....

[mikvan52]

I'll go up to Lansing every Monday for the next month to do the Head of the Grand course--over and over.
So, race day, I'll know exactly what I can do--and not, at least in good conditions. Three times down the course (with a paddle back to the start) on each visit to Lansing should be a good workout.

Of course, 3 out-and-back trips on a head-race course would be 6 x 5k = a 30k session in a 1x. 30k is a LOT of meters in a single, especially if there are wind and current. As far as I can recall, that's twice as far as fableboy has ever rowed OTW in a single day. To make it possible, perhaps he will emulate his legendary, pedal-free 20 mph hour on a road bike and row without oarlocks....

Nav: Great point...
It is not a principle of good training to up one's distance so fast.
Personally, my limit is at about 20k.. my regular long rows (throughout the summer) being closer to 15k...

This, for me, is high volume for a 55-59 year-old.. More is unnecessary... (Dietz (the HOCR 60+ winner) does about the same... (ref: 2009 HOCR youtube interview)

My max meterage is 90-100k per week (on the water.... w/no erg meters)

This does me just fine to win head races...

[ranger]

The paddles back to the start don't really count.

I will just be resting.

I will only row 12K at full pressure, then, and for most of my trials, not at a max rating, just in a steady way that gets me used to the course.

I'll start at 22 spm or so and work my way up to 28 spm.

BTW, normally, I row OTW _after_ I erg and bike, that is, after three hours of exercise.

So there isn't any problem with quantity.

If I get to a norm of 90min a day day of each of my three activities--OTErg, OTBike, OTW, I will be doing the equivalent of 50K or so OTW, if I just did all the work there.

4.5 hours

Three times down the course at the Head of the Grand is only about an hour at full pressure.

ranger

[ranger]

You ARE lean enough already

Nah.

I've got lots of weight to lose.

I am 14% body fat at the moment.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

The thing about rivers is that you can't just stop and get out of the boat when you get tired. If you're doing out-and-backs, when you're done rowing out you still have to row back. You may think that your proposed "paddles" don't count. They do. Even if they're the rowing equivalent of junk meters you still will have to stay upright, maintain form, and move the boat. I don't know the HOTG course, but I'm going to assume that the river has at least some current in it. Perforce half of your rowing is goint to be against whatever flow there may be.

You will NOT be able to row "full pressure" for 3 x 5k in a single session regardless of rating. The Alan Campbells of the world can't do it and don't waste time thinking about it. What makes you think you're better? And more importantly, why on earth do you think 3 x 5k (paddle a 5k) is a worthwhile session goal? One meaningful, continuous move-the-boat 5k with decent form and decent grunt is going to be worth tons more than 30k worth of meters piled up for their own sake. Oh, and you'll do yourself a favor by timing yourself against the bank markers for start and finish. That'll be how they'll time you during a race, not with a miscalibrated speed coach.

[whp4]

If I hold to this cross-training regimen, over that six months from now until WIRC, these rides alone will burn over 200,000 calories, the equivalent of over 50 pounds of fat.

And these rides are only 1/3 of my daily regimen as a whole.

By adding these bike rides to my erging and rowing, I am already losing my body fat--quickly.

171.6 lbs. this morning.

Last week, I was 175 lbs.

Careful...
(we won't go over what is fat and what is water weight again)
Don't lose muscle mass.
3 hrs of training a day can do that to an old(er) man..

Look how much you've changed already in 7 years.. Hold on to your strength with less volume =

ranger 2003


ranger 2010


You ARE lean enough already... If you drop lots of weight you'll just get weaker and be unable to row head races (or heats and finals in a 1k OTW at < 160 lbs)

Mike, it looks like the only thing that has changed is that his head has gotten bigger and thicker

[hjs]

You ARE lean enough already

Nah.

I've got lots of weight to lose.

I am 14% body fat at the moment.

ranger

You wish

[PaulH]

BTW, normally, I row OTW _after_ I erg and bike, that is, after three hours of exercise.

Except you don't yet do 90 minutes each of the first two, and hence this is a statement that you know to be wrong and is meant to mislead. Or to use the technical term "a lie".

[kini62]

Sure, I get _very_ good power from my legs (I was a marathon runner for 25 years), about 100 kgF.

Ah yes, but a mediocre one. 2:50ish is above average for most races but WELL short of being "competitive".

I was also a competitive swimmer for decade and a competitive canoeist for two decades.

Since there is little mention by you of any real accomplishments in either of these endeavors I'll guess that you were even less "competitive" in swimming and canoeing. Canoeing? Seriously? You weren't competitive when there are less canoers than there are ergers?

I guess you were/are a "competitive" cyclist too? Given that you can do 20+ mph for over an hour without even having pedals.

Tool

[KevJGK]

Ah yes, but a mediocre one. 2:50ish is above average for most races but WELL short of being "competitive".

I don't know if you have run a marathon and of course everything is relative, but in my book 2 hours 50 minutes isn't mediocre, it's a bloody superb time and an awful lot better than above average.

[Bob S.]

Perforce half of your rowing is goint to be against whatever flow there may be.

It always has to be considerably more than half.

Bob S.

[aharmer]

Ah yes, but a mediocre one. 2:50ish is above average for most races but WELL short of being "competitive".

I don't know if you have run a marathon and of course everything is relative, but in my book 2 hours 50 minutes isn't mediocre, it's a bloody superb time and an awful lot better than above average.

I agree with you Kev, 2:50 is a nice marathon time. Most elite marathoners would tell you 2:50 is a nice marathon time even though they can run 40 minutes faster.

What's most interesting to me though, is the fact that ranger claims he has superb erging power in his legs because he ran marathons. Marathon training, even if it's for 30 years, will do next to nothing to improve the power of your drive in erging. Maybe it's the bicycling without pedals that contributed to his leg power. Maybe it was canoeing at an elite level without paddles. Who knows???

[lancs]

I am rowing close to 30 seconds _under_ the WR in my age and weight division.

Really? For what distance are you talking about?

Do you mean you think you could or you actually have done?

Please clarify.

[mikvan52]

I agree w/Kev' and 'harmer:

2:50 is a strong marathon effort.
In the same era that ranger was running his 2:50, I was running a couple of 2:26's
The approx. 1 minute per mile faster pace per mile I was running obviously does not equate to equivalent faster pace in the 2k erg ... or 5k OTW...

Indeed: Excellence varies across endurance sports and is not measurable in VO2 max and simple endurance tests...

IMO: One of the most blatant misconceptions Cureton exhibits is the belief that he can train for a HOCR top 3% effort by (primarily) erging and biking.

This has never been done and never will be done. The reason for this, in my book, is that an erger doesn't have any impetus to handle at least half of the stroke cycle correctly for OTW... More evidence of this can be seen in C2s continuing efforts to come out with a "better" erg...==> one that mimics rowing on the water.
(Don't expect any reasonable explanation for this from TSO!)

Naturally, 'TSO' (the special one) has claimed to have sculled beaucoup millions of meters otw... There isn't any reasonable evidence for this however... And... he always falls back on "I am a novice"... when, according to him, he has been averaging over a million+ meters OTw for the last seven or eight years...
(He loves to exaggerate)... and this quality is why we "love" him so much... => we get to snipe at him.

[NavigationHazard]

Lancs, you also might well ask, what age division and what weight division.

As of today the fruitbat is still 59 years old and by his own admission a heavyweight. The 2k WR for the 55-59 MHW division is 6:18.6. I make 30 seconds faster to be 5:48.6....

No doubt the maths wizard will be on later to proclaim this is "nitpicking." He'll claim he's "close enough" to 60, to LW, and to rowing something continuously that our real-world corrections are "not relevant"....