Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

If you row well, both OTErg and OTW, there is about a 5 SPI difference between the two.

13 SPI OTErg is like 8 SPI OTW.

This means that Mike VB pulling 9.4 SPI @ 34 spm for 2K OTErg would be like thrashing away at 4.4 SPI and 34 spm OTW.

Ridiculous stuff.

Mike would never even consider it.

That's just lousy rowing.

ranger

[ausrwr]

Wow.

By dropping the drag from max to 118 df. over the last six months and continuing to work with technique OTW while I was erging, the rate of my distance rowing has come down 4 spm and therefore my stroking power for distance rowing has gone up 2 SPI.

Hi-yo, Silver!

Let that boat run!

Let that wheel spin!

Last fall, I was delighted to get to the point that I was pulling 1:43 @ 29 spm (10 MPS, 11 SPI), even though the stroke I was using to get this done was quite a bit lighter than the stroke I had been using at low rates.

Last fall, I was rowing at max drag (200+ df.).

By dropping the drag to 118 df. this spring and getting even better technically OTW this summer, particularly at the catch, where I have now learned to use the whole slide and relax my shoulders, I am now just going along 1:43 @ 25 spm (10 MPS, 13 SPI).

I am particularly glad about this, because 25 spm is a much more relaxed rate than 29 spm.

You can just do and do 25 spm, without even thinking about it much, until, well, you have been doing it for a couple of hours.

So, it looks as though it will be just a matter of time, and perhaps not too much time at all, before I will do 30K @ 1:43.

This is Caviston's Level 3 rowing.

That would predict in and around 18K/1:40 for 60min.

And why not?

I would only have to rate 27 spm.

Given the pace, this rowing, 1:43 @ 25 spm, is finally driving my HR up to where I want it in the 160s during my distance rowing from day to day.

Then, over the next six months, in my sharpening work, I can drive my HR on up from there to 190 bpm.

10K or so, 1:43 @ 25 spm, is a pretty classy warm up for my daily sharpening work!

Delighted with all of this.

As far as I can tell, I am now considerably _beyond_ my targets.

How far beyond, I don't know.

But it is now clear that my stroking power is indeed 13 SPI.

My point on the 10MPS ladder is now 1:34 @ 32 spm (10 MPS, 13 SPI), right on my 2K target.

On the erg, at least, I am now rowing perfectly.

I am now locking on to my target very nicely.

To row 6:16 for 2K at 60, I just need to row well and rate 32 spm.

118 df.

No 60s lwt at the moment can do 1:43 for 2K.

1:43 is Mike VB's 2K race pace (TR).

When he races 2k on the erg, Mike does 1:43 @ 34 spm (9.4 SPI).

He just lets his technique go all the hell, something that he would never even consider OTW.

Mike is the current 55s lwt hammer.

30K is done at 2K + 13.

ranger

You really have lost it. This is one of the most deranged posts you've ever made. You seem to believe that with your idiotic idea that 30k is done at 2k + 13 (if it is, there's no evidence, especially not from you) and that you think you can do 1:43 for it, you're close to a 6:00 2k.

You are an idiot. You will probably pull a 60s LWT WR next year. But you won't go 6:00. or 6:10. Maybe 6:45. But it won't change the fact that you are an idiot.

You're wilfully ignorant. When you talk about low drag meaning that low rating is "rewarded more", you're wrong, as usual. The wheel doesn't "run". The power measurement is generated through a function of the acceleration and deceleration of the wheel. Realistically, a higher drag will mean it decelerates more between strokes, so it's easier to pull a higher wattage at a lower rate.

But it doesn't matter. Just keep what you're doing and keep failing in the sure and certain knowledge that it will produce success.

In your own mind, in your own mind.

[ranger]

Realistically, a higher drag will mean it decelerates more between strokes, so it's easier to pull a higher wattage at a lower rate.

Say what?

Isn't this the case?

At lower rates, you use a higher ratio.

With higher ratios, there is more recovery time, during which the wheel spins without you having to work to spin it, relative to drive time, where you have to work to spin it.

If the wheel is not decelerating quickly, but spinning more freely, you are rewarded more substantially as the recovery time increases.

If the wheel is decelerating quickly while you are recovering, and therefore not spinning as freely, you are rewarded less for a long recovery.

Am I missing something?

ranger

[ranger]

You really have lost it.

As a 60s lwt, if just rowing along, 1:43 @ 25 spm, steady state, with a HR below my anaerobic threshold, is being "lost," then may I be lost forever!

This rowing is amazing, given my age and weight.

In fact, for a lightweight of any age, it's perfect.

ranger

[lancs]

Why is Lancs rowing seven seconds per 500m slower now on his UT rowing than he was doing just a year or so ago?

Because I took a year off you complete moron. How stupid can you really be?

As a 60s lwt, if just rowing along, 1:43 @ 25 spm, steady state, with a HR below my anaerobic threshold, is being "lost," then may I be lost forever!

This rowing is amazing, given my age and weight.

You couldn't get to 4k at 1:43 so what relevance the steady state and HR below AT comments are to you I do not know. You cannot and will not *ever* row this pace at 'steady state', whatever you think the term means..

[whp4]

Realistically, a higher drag will mean it decelerates more between strokes, so it's easier to pull a higher wattage at a lower rate.

Say what?

Isn't this the case?

At lower rates, you use a higher ratio.

With higher ratios, there is more recovery time, during which the wheel spins without you having to work to spin it, relative to drive time, where you have to work to spin it.

If the wheel is not decelerating quickly, but spinning more freely, you are rewarded more substantially as the recovery time increases.

If the wheel is decelerating quickly while you are recovering, and therefore not spinning as freely, you are rewarded less for a long recovery.

Am I missing something?

Yes, an understanding (or even a hope of understanding, judging from past discussions) of how the monitor works.

What do you think the monitor would show if you hooked the flywheel to a motor and spun it at a continuous rate for 5 minutes (look at that boat run!)? What do you think the monitor would show if you sealed up the flywheel/fan housing in plastic and hooked up a vacuum cleaner to pull out most of the air? Why not boost your average ratio by taking a break to post nonsense on the forum after every 30-50 meters of rowing, letting the wheel continue to spin as you post?

[ranger]

Yes, an understanding (or even a hope of understanding, judging from past discussions) of how the monitor works.

At low drag (118 df.), when you are rowing in a high ratio (eg. 3-to-1), controlling the slide on the recovery, you can hear and feel the free spinning of the wheel.

When this is happening, you are getting something for nothing.

The slower you are on the recovery, the more you get for nothing.

At low drag, the drive time shortens, too, further accentuating the recovery, and what you get when you are resting.

ranger

[ranger]

Because I took a year off you complete moron. How stupid can you really be?

O.K.

So you will work and work, building your fitness up toward where it was before.

But you probably won't even get to where you were before, much less some place better.

And so it goes.

As you age, your times will slip, and slip, and slip.

You will just get worse and worse.

You can't get better at rowing by just working on your fitness.

To get better at rowing, you need to get better at rowing.

ranger

[ranger]

You couldn't get to 4k at 1:43 so what relevance the steady state and HR below AT comments are to you I do not know. You cannot and will not *ever* row this pace at 'steady state', whatever you think the term means..

I am doing it right now.

"Steady state" means that your heart rate goes up to a certain level and then stays there.

A good indication of steady state is when you see your heart rate _drop_ from time to time during a long row, holding the pace and rate constant.

162--162--162--162--161--161--160--161--160--161--162--162--162--etc.

ranger

[ranger]

Back in Ann Arbor now.

Nice hour on my bike today, after erging.

I would like to make that 90min.

I would also like to make my OTErg and OTW rowing 90min each.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, big scare with my boat, while I was up in Door County.

The big western front that has moved into the midwest US and is still here carried big winds and rain.

On Thursday night, up in Door County, this wind and rain blew off the top of a rotten birch tree.

The tree came down right at my boat, but by some miracle, broke up about six inches short.

The tree must have weighed hundreds and hundred of pounds.

It would have blown my boat to bits.

Time to get some insurance for the Fluid, I think.









ranger

[Citroen]

Nice hour on my bike today ...

Was that with or without pedals?
How close to twenty five miles did you get in your hour on the bike?

[ranger]

Nice hour on my bike today ...

Was that with or without pedals?
How close to twenty five miles did you get in your hour on the bike?

It has pedals now.

24.1 miles in the hour, according to the little gizmo on my bike.

ranger

[kini62]

Nice hour on my bike today ...

Was that with or without pedals?
How close to twenty five miles did you get in your hour on the bike?

He got as close as he ever gets, which is............................25 miles from doing 25 miles

His little pink Huffy hasn't seen the road in 10 years and his bike's rear wheel hasn't seen a working resistance unit in the same amount of time.

Gene

[ranger]

Nice hour on my bike today ...

Was that with or without pedals?
How close to twenty five miles did you get in your hour on the bike?

He got as close as he ever gets, which is............................25 miles from doing 25 miles

His little pink Huffy hasn't seen the road in 10 years and his bike's rear wheel hasn't seen a working resistance unit in the same amount of time.

Gene

Sure it has.

I checked my speed on the road several times with my Navigator and posted the screen shots here.

Same result.

ranger