Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

Steady state for what variables? HR? Pace? Stroke rate?

All of the above.

ranger

[ranger]

There's no such thing as steady state for all three at 1:48@23spm for you - if nothing else your HR will drift upwards as you lose liquid through that "lovely sweating" that create the pool on your garage floor. You can't avoid that, that's physiology 101.

Oh, sure.

There will be a little drift.

My average HR for a FM, though, will be 155 bpm, and my HR will never be above 165 bpm during the row.

ranger

[Citroen]

Steady state for what variables? HR? Pace? Stroke rate?

All of the above.

ranger

There's no such thing as steady state for all three at 1:48@23spm for you - if nothing else your HR will drift upwards as you lose liquid through that "lovely sweating" that create the pool on your garage floor. You can't avoid that, that's physiology 101.

Oh, sure.

There will be a little drift.

My average HR for a FM, though, will be 155 bpm, and my HR will never be above 165 bpm during the row.

ranger

Hand's up, who can spot the inconsistency between Ranger's consecutive posts.

[ranger]

You aren't rowing steady state when your HR spikes up quickly, and keeps on rising quickly, up over your anaerobic threshold, and you have to stop.

A bit of drift doesn't matter a whit.

As you say, that's just due to heat, dehydration, etc., not increased effort, and how much drift you get can vary pretty wildly from day to day, depending on conditions, both internal/physiological and external/environmental.

The "steady state" is the level of effort.

Heck, if you are in good enough shape and the row is long enough, at some point in a row you can start to cool off, and if you do, your HR falls.

The level of effort, though, remains the same.

ranger

[Citroen]

A bit of drift doesn't matter a whit.

As you say, that's just due to heat, dehydration, etc., not increased effort.

The "steady state" is the level of effort.

It's NOT steady. What part of the word "STEADY" do you not understand. Your physiological system is working harder, you're doing more to get the same wattage output as you are approaching the point where glycogen will be depleted and you'll switch to the less efficient energy system that converts fat directly to glucose (which is what the marathon runners describe as the "wall"). That ain't "steady" in my book.

Time for you to go back to school for physiology 101 - not that it will help while you continue using the same coach who can't get your 2K time back under 6:40.

[mikvan52]

No onlookers are fooled RIch:
The FM is not at all necessary for a 2k.

Do you think that 1500m runners run marathons to predict their times? (QUACK!)

AND... what you did in 2003 (!) That's 7 years ago...
What's your most recent 5k -10k- HM -FM.... posted IND_V

AND... where's your raw un-peaked speed (this summer)... erg. water. track.... complete data...
at 500m, 100m ???

Look: It's alright to admit you're slowing down... I am too! We're getting older..

Just look how slow this start was last Sunday at Diamond States in Delaware:

Set my SpeedCoach to record data on each stroke. Light quartering tailwind.
.
At zero strokes the timer read 0:06.0
Assume start at 0:07.5 (?)
1 stroke – 3:12 – 21.5 – 0:08.8
2 – 1:52/500m – 43.5 – 0:10.1
3 – 1:44 – 43.0 – 0:11.6
4 – 1:39 – 41.0 – 0:13.0
5 – 1:41 – 39.5 – 0:14.5
6 – 1:39 – 39.5 – 0:16.0
7 – 1:39 – 39.5 – 0:17.6 – 50 meters (iow 10.1 seconds to go 50 meters)
8 – 1:37 – 39.5 – 0:19.1
9 – 1:39 – 39.0 – 0:20.6
10 – 1:39 – 38.5 – 0:22.1 – note 1.5 seconds per stroke
11 – 1:40 – 39.0 – 0:23.7 – by this time I was well into open water on the field
12 – 1:42 – 37.5 – 0:25.3 – I lengthened
13 – 1:43 – 37.0 – 0:26.9 – 97 meters
14 – 1:41 – 36.5 – 0:28.5
15 – 1:39 – 36.0 – 0:30.2
16 – 1:40 – 36.5 – 0:31.8
17 – 1:40 – 35.5 – 0:33.5
18 – 1:41 – 36.0 – 0:35.2
19 – 1:40 – 35.0 – 0:36.9
20 – 1:40 – 35.5 – 0:38.6 – so, 20 strokes into the race I was at 155 meters on my device
The others were not creating similar boat speed. I wasn’t feeling much up to going way far out ahead.
.
21 – 1:40 – 34.0 – 0:40.4
22 – 1:42 – 34.5 – 0:42.2 (I remember that my steering was off a little. Perhaps the quartering tail had something to do with that.)
23 – 1:42 – 32.0 – 0:43.9 (the 2nd “lengthen”)
24 – 1:45 – 32.5 – 0:45.8
25 – 1:43 – 32.5 – 0:47.7 – 199 meters
26 – 1:49 – 34.5 – 0:49.4
27 – 1:46 – 32.0 – 0:51.3
28 – 1:45 – 33.0 – 0:53.1
29 – 1:45 – 32.0 – 0:54.9
30 – 1:46 – 33.5 – 0:56.8
31 – 1:46 – 33.5 – 0:58.6
32 – 1:46 – 32.5 – 1:00.4
33 – 1:45 – 33.0 – 1:02.2
34 – 1:46 – 32.5 – 1:04.1
35 – 1:48 – 31.5 – 1:05.9
36 – 1:48 – 32.5 – 1:07.8 – (subtracting the 7.5 timer early start: this is at 1 minute … 293 meters on SpeedCoach) By this point I could see the 250m marker off my port stern ( I was in lane 5. The other boats were spread out in an array behind me. I knew I had the race won. My emotion was to not make this a ridiculous win. Also, I had 3 more races coming up in the afternoon: Mixed D 2x, F 2x, Lwt D 2x…. So I started to pull it in effortwise.
37 – 1:48 – 33.5 – 1:09.6
38 – 1:47 – 32.0 – 1:11.4
39 – 1:50 – 32.0 – 1:13.3
40 – 1:53 – 33.0 – 1:15.2
41 – 1:53 – 33.5 – 1:16.9
42 – 1:53 – 32.5 – 1:18.8
43 – 1:53 – 33.0 – 1:20.6
44 – 1:51 – 32.0 – 1:22.5
45 – 1:53 – 31.5 – 1:24.4
46 – 1:51 – 32.0 – 1:26.3 (The numbers seem to show that I was trying to stay efficient)
47 – 1:51 – 32.0 – 1:28.1
48 – 1:50 – 32.0 – 1:30.0
49 – 1:52 – 32.0 – 1:31.9
50 – 1:54 – 32.5 – 1:33.8
51 – 1:53 – 31.0 – 1:35.7
52 – 1:54 – 31.5 – 1:37.6
53 – 1:55 – 32.0 – 1:39.4
54 – 1:55 – 30.0 – 1:41.4
55 – 1:52 – 31.0 – 1:43.4
56 – 1:53 – 29.5 – 1:45.4 (an inelegant lengthen?... rate goes down)
57 – 1:52 – 29.5 – 1:47.4
58 – 1:53 – 30.5 – 1:49.4
59 – 1:53 – 31.0 – 1:51.4
60 – 1:59 – 31.0 – 1:53.3
61 – 1:59 – 31.5 – 1:55.2 – 503 meters in 1:47.8

[Citroen]

AND... what you did in 2003 (!) That's 7 years ago...
What's your most recent 5k -10k- HM -FM.... posted IND_V

We've not had any non-RACE, IND_V results since those were posted in 2003. His coach told him to stop posting verifiable results as it may give a tactical advantage to his rivals.

[jliddil]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

[ranger]

A bit of drift doesn't matter a whit.

As you say, that's just due to heat, dehydration, etc., not increased effort.

The "steady state" is the level of effort.

It's NOT steady. What part of the word "STEADY" do you not understand. Your physiological system is working harder, you're doing more to get the same wattage output as you are approaching the point where glycogen will be depleted and you'll switch to the less efficient energy system that converts fat directly to glucose (which is what the marathon runners describe as the "wall"). That ain't "steady" in my book.

Time for you to go back to school for physiology 101

Nah.

I have never hit the wall rowing a FM.

I don't even have to drink water along the way.

You just pick a pace; hold it, and row.

When you get to the end, stop.

ranger

[ranger]

The FM is not at all necessary for a 2k.

On the erg?

Heck, _nothing_ is necessary, if you just want to row a bad 2K on the erg, as you do.

Why single out FMs as a culprit?

By and large, for a 2K on the erg, you just sharpen.

O.K.

But then you don't really _train_ on the erg at all.

You just do race preparation.

To each his own.

I am talking about training, not race preparation.

Race preparation only takes a couple of months.

Everyone does it the same way.

And everyone gets about the same benefit (a dozen seconds or so over 2K).

Nothing could be more boring--or more irrelevant to rowing your best for 2K.

ranger

[Citroen]

to get the same wattage output as you are approaching the point where glycogen will be depleted

Nah.

I have never hit the wall rowing a FM.

I didn't say you'd hit the wall on the erg doing a FM, you'd need to be aiming for 100K to hit the wall.

Once again you've, selectively, missed a word, pal. You missed the word "approaching". That's a nasty habit just like misquoting folks.

[ranger]

The FM is not at all necessary for a 2k...The others were not creating similar boat speed

This isn't data from a 2K, or an erg race.

Show some data of you coming out of the blocks fast in an erg race and then doing well because of your fast start.

Don't you do 1:43 for most of a 2K race on the erg--fully trained?

When I am fully trained up for it, as you are when you race, my target is 1:34 for 2K.

So, sorry, but I don't see how what you do on the erg has anything to do with what I am attempting.

You miss it by nine seconds per 500m--for most of the race.

ranger

[ranger]

Set my SpeedCoach to record data on each stroke. Light quartering tailwind.
.
At zero strokes the timer read 0:06.0
Assume start at 0:07.5 (?)
1 stroke – 3:12 – 21.5 – 0:08.8
2 – 1:52/500m – 43.5 – 0:10.1
3 – 1:44 – 43.0 – 0:11.6
4 – 1:39 – 41.0 – 0:13.0
5 – 1:41 – 39.5 – 0:14.5
6 – 1:39 – 39.5 – 0:16.0
7 – 1:39 – 39.5 – 0:17.6 – 50 meters (iow 10.1 seconds to go 50 meters)
8 – 1:37 – 39.5 – 0:19.1
9 – 1:39 – 39.0 – 0:20.6
10 – 1:39 – 38.5 – 0:22.1 – note 1.5 seconds per stroke
11 – 1:40 – 39.0 – 0:23.7 – by this time I was well into open water on the field
12 – 1:42 – 37.5 – 0:25.3 – I lengthened
13 – 1:43 – 37.0 – 0:26.9 – 97 meters
14 – 1:41 – 36.5 – 0:28.5
15 – 1:39 – 36.0 – 0:30.2
16 – 1:40 – 36.5 – 0:31.8
17 – 1:40 – 35.5 – 0:33.5
18 – 1:41 – 36.0 – 0:35.2
19 – 1:40 – 35.0 – 0:36.9
20 – 1:40 – 35.5 – 0:38.6 – so, 20 strokes into the race I was at 155 meters on my device
The others were not creating similar boat speed. I wasn’t feeling much up to going way far out ahead.
.
21 – 1:40 – 34.0 – 0:40.4
22 – 1:42 – 34.5 – 0:42.2 (I remember that my steering was off a little. Perhaps the quartering tail had something to do with that.)
23 – 1:42 – 32.0 – 0:43.9 (the 2nd “lengthen”)
24 – 1:45 – 32.5 – 0:45.8
25 – 1:43 – 32.5 – 0:47.7 – 199 meters
26 – 1:49 – 34.5 – 0:49.4
27 – 1:46 – 32.0 – 0:51.3
28 – 1:45 – 33.0 – 0:53.1
29 – 1:45 – 32.0 – 0:54.9
30 – 1:46 – 33.5 – 0:56.8
31 – 1:46 – 33.5 – 0:58.6
32 – 1:46 – 32.5 – 1:00.4
33 – 1:45 – 33.0 – 1:02.2
34 – 1:46 – 32.5 – 1:04.1
35 – 1:48 – 31.5 – 1:05.9
36 – 1:48 – 32.5 – 1:07.8 – (subtracting the 7.5 timer early start: this is at 1 minute … 293 meters on SpeedCoach) By this point I could see the 250m marker off my port stern ( I was in lane 5. The other boats were spread out in an array behind me. I knew I had the race won. My emotion was to not make this a ridiculous win. Also, I had 3 more races coming up in the afternoon: Mixed D 2x, F 2x, Lwt D 2x…. So I started to pull it in effortwise.
37 – 1:48 – 33.5 – 1:09.6
38 – 1:47 – 32.0 – 1:11.4
39 – 1:50 – 32.0 – 1:13.3
40 – 1:53 – 33.0 – 1:15.2
41 – 1:53 – 33.5 – 1:16.9
42 – 1:53 – 32.5 – 1:18.8
43 – 1:53 – 33.0 – 1:20.6
44 – 1:51 – 32.0 – 1:22.5
45 – 1:53 – 31.5 – 1:24.4
46 – 1:51 – 32.0 – 1:26.3 (The numbers seem to show that I was trying to stay efficient)
47 – 1:51 – 32.0 – 1:28.1
48 – 1:50 – 32.0 – 1:30.0
49 – 1:52 – 32.0 – 1:31.9
50 – 1:54 – 32.5 – 1:33.8
51 – 1:53 – 31.0 – 1:35.7
52 – 1:54 – 31.5 – 1:37.6
53 – 1:55 – 32.0 – 1:39.4
54 – 1:55 – 30.0 – 1:41.4
55 – 1:52 – 31.0 – 1:43.4
56 – 1:53 – 29.5 – 1:45.4 (an inelegant lengthen?... rate goes down)
57 – 1:52 – 29.5 – 1:47.4
58 – 1:53 – 30.5 – 1:49.4
59 – 1:53 – 31.0 – 1:51.4
60 – 1:59 – 31.0 – 1:53.3
61 – 1:59 – 31.5 – 1:55.2 – 503 meters in 1:47.8

O.K.

But even at 12 seconds per 500m above erg times, this is like taking off on the erg at 1:36 for the first 500m, and even so, pulling it down to 1:27 at points.

So this is relevant to a 2K on the erg?

Happy to have you demonstrate how.

As far as I can tell, it only indicates bad pacing.

ranger

[aharmer]

Well, I went back on my word again. I came back prior to September 1st. Noticed that you still claim to be planning a 2k trial on September 1st, and I have a few questions that I hope you'll answer so I'll know whether it's worth coming back in a month.

Will you absolutely be doing a 2k trial on September 1st?

Have you already cleared your schedule so there is no conflict?

Do you plan to wear a HRM during this trial?

Do you plan to post a screenshot of your time, rate, HR, etc. following your trial...regardless of outcome?

Would you consider having your wife videotape the entire 2k? The last one would be great, but I understand if you didn't want to comply. Very risky if you need to handle down at 600m.

If you cannot, or are unwilling to answer YES to the other four questions, I see no reason to ever visit this page again.

[Carl Watts]

Well, I went back on my word again. I came back prior to September 1st. Noticed that you still claim to be planning a 2k trial on September 1st, and I have a few questions that I hope you'll answer so I'll know whether it's worth coming back in a month.

Will you absolutely be doing a 2k trial on September 1st?

Have you already cleared your schedule so there is no conflict?

Do you plan to wear a HRM during this trial?

Do you plan to post a screenshot of your time, rate, HR, etc. following your trial...regardless of outcome?

Would you consider having your wife videotape the entire 2k? The last one would be great, but I understand if you didn't want to comply. Very risky if you need to handle down at 600m.

If you cannot, or are unwilling to answer YES to the other four questions, I see no reason to ever visit this page again.

Your wasting your time coming back here just like me and everyone else for that matter, but I know it's so good for a laugh you just cannot help yourself.

Ranger has posted no verified times for anything other than the odd 2K race since 2003, yet still continues to put down others that are better than him even when they post their actual results.

If your going to claim your better than anyone (or in Rangers case, better than everyone) then you post IND_V times & distances on the C2 rankings, it's that simple or everyone is just laughing at your unsubstantiated claims.