Ranger's training thread

[Byron Drachman]

I'll now pull 6:12 for 2K.

Congrats on knocking 4 seconds off your virtual pb!! Impressive! How did you manage it?!

And for the record, you'll never row under 6:40 again as a genuine lwt.

I'd like to join Lancs in sending congratulations. Four seconds improvement in a virtual 2K is impressive and I'm sorry this amazing virtual performance hasn't gotten more attention from your loyal fan base. However, I think you will have to admit that you are slowing down. After all, we have this:

March 24, 2007:
True.
The plan was to row 6:16 for 2K.
But it looks as though I am going to row 6:00.

So you have slowed down by 12 seconds in your virtual 2K's over the last three years. I, on the other hand, continue to run a solid sub-four minute in my virtual mile runs, and I haven't slowed down at all over the last three years when running my virtual miles. Perhaps you are over-training.

[Rockin Roland]

Rich is 'Member of the Day' on the C2 log book main page.

Congrats...

That's C2 recognising Rich for his contribution to this forum in becoming a "Marathon Poster".

However, the photo of Rich tells us enough about him without having ever met him.

Shirt off and looking buff, posing next to his huge black SUV with the word Ranger across the side of it.

In my country there is a word to describe that.........any guesses?

[ranger]

Of course I'm way off the WR in my age group. The competition in my group are professional elite athletes who don't have to squeeze a 60 hour working week alongside training 5 days a week. The competition in your group are a few enthusiastic amateurs.

So, if you didn't have to work, and were a professional rower, you would row a lwt 6:02 for 2K, four seconds under the 30s lwt WR?

I am not sure it is as easy as that.

But if you say so, I suppose we can give you the benefit of the doubt.

At 37, Eskild E. now rows 6:16 on the erg.

He seems to be pretty professional still, although I certainly don't know enough to say.

It _does_ give one pause, though.

Given that Eskild rowed 6:02 in his twenties, and 6:06 when he was 30, if he has remained a professional, why didn't he just continue to get better on the erg as he aged?

Given the sentiment you express here, you must have an idea what a 60-year-old lightweight who was a professional athlete might pull for 2K, and it must be wildly different from current standards in the sport.

What absolute standards are you presuming?

Are you presuming that a 60-year-old lightweight who was a professional athlete would still pull 6:00?

Or 6:10?

Or 6:20?

Or 6:30?

Rather than 6:42?

ranger

[ranger]

YES all your distance rows are pace predictors for the 2K

True, if you keep track of %HRR.

In essence, your potential over 2K is set by your UT2/FM pace, if you keep the rate down to 22-24 spm, to demonstrate your technical achievement (i.e., effectiveness and efficiency as a rower), which is necessary to carry that potential up through 2K.

That's why I am working hard at 22-24 spm now.

Sure, a FM trial will tell the tale.

The question is:

What pace can I hold at 22-24 spm, steady state, with a HR of 155 bpm (75% HRR), for a couple of hours?

If the answer is 1:49, it predicts that, fully trained, I can row 6:16 for 2K.

Rocket Roy does 1:56 for a FM, and even so, at 26 spm, not 22-24 spm.

Mike VB doesn't row FMs, but I presume he would do about the same, although he could certainly do it at 22-24 spm.

A FM/UT2 pace of 1:56 predicts a 6:42 2K.

My FM pb is 1:54 from back in 2002, and at a much higher rate than 22-24 spm, probably something more like Roy's 26 spm, or even higher, that is, not rowing well at all.

ranger

[BrianStaff]

I even got to 2:07 @ 22 spm.

That's plenty good to win the Head of the Charles.

In order to win, you actually have to go to Boston and race OTW...or will this be a another DNS or DNF?

Have you registered yet?

[ranger]

I even got to 2:07 @ 22 spm.

That's plenty good to win the Head of the Charles.

In order to win, you actually have to go to Boston and race OTW...or will this be a another DNS or DNF?

Have you registered yet?

Heck no.

I am just learning to row.

I have never raced OTW--at all.

I haven't even raced in practice.

I have just been drilling on technique.

No reason to race, when you are still learning basic skills.

My goal is to get in some local head races this fall, some sprint races next spring and summer, and if I feel up to it, the Veterans race at the Head of the Charles next fall, when I am 60.

ranger

[BrianStaff]

Shirt off and looking buff, posing next to his huge black SUV with the word Ranger across the side of it.

In my country there is a word to describe that.........any guesses?

Wanker? - I wonder if the word Prof knows its meaning?

[Citroen]

In my country there is a word to describe that.........any guesses?

I'd bet it a 6 letter word starting with "W" and ending with "R" and if not then its 4 letters starting with "C" and ending with "T".

[ranger]

Shirt off and looking buff, posing next to his huge black SUV with the word Ranger across the side of it.

In my country there is a word to describe that.........any guesses?

Wanker? - I wonder if the word Prof knows its meaning?

Not my car.



Convenient, though.

The pic was taken in Door County, in a local state park.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, I think that Mike VB is right that the erg is not the best thing to do to improve your OTW rowing, if you do things like 2:00 @ 20 spm (10 SPI) for hours and hours, day after day, especially if you row at high drag.

The rhythm is wrong, and just in the way that Mike points out:

Rowing like that on the erg, you can't let the wheel spin; you can't let your dry boat run.

You slow down the drive, rush the recovery, rush the catch, cut the slide, etc.

On the other hand, if you row at low drag (e.g., 120 df.) and ramp up the power to 13.3 SPI (e.g., 1:48 @ 21 spm), the equivalent of that 9.4 SPI that Mike rowed this last weekend, there is no problem.

The rhythm of the stroke on the erg is pretty darn close to the rhythm of a good stroke (e.g., 9.4 SPI) OTW.

The drive is quick, the recovery slow, the catch well prepared, the slide full, etc.

If you are lightweight and are pulling 13.3 SPI on the erg, you are rowing well!

You are doing technical work that is directly relevant to your OTW rowing.

Of course, there are still a lot things that you can't do OTErg that you need to practice OTW.

But if you are a lighweight and you are pulling 13.3 SPI on the erg, the claim that rowing OTErg is _counterproductive_, vis-a-vis your OTW rowing, I think, no longer holds.

The question is:

If you are a lightweight, can you row a lot (e.g., 20K a day) OTErg at 13.3 SPI?

It is no accident, I think, that 13.3 SPI is right around the Wolverine Plan level 4 paces for a 6:16 2K.

1:58 @ 16 spm
1:56 @ 17 spm
1:54 @ 18 spm
1:52 @ 19 spm
1:50 @ 20 spm
1:48 @ 21 spm
1:46 @ 22 spm
1:44 @ 23 spm
1:42 @ 24 spm
1:40 @ 25 spm
1:38 @ 26 spm

This is the kind of rowing I did for several years in my RWBs routines.

My major mistakes, though, were rowing at high drag, with a cut slide, and given tense shoulders, too much back and arms too early.

I have now returned to this sort of rowing, but with these mistakes corrected (or at least, on my mind).

I am also rowing 12K OTW every day, after erging.

The two great challenges of rowing are (1) to row well at low rates and (2) to raise the rate to the max, given the distance, while/still rowing well.

Mike VB can now do one of these (row well).

I can do the other (raise the rate).

My goal is to work on technique until I can do both--together.

Is that Mike VB's goal, too?

ranger

[ranger]

At 120 df., I would guess that a lightweight rowing 1:50 @ 20 spm on the erg is approaching a 4-to-1 ratio.

Stroke cycle: 3 seconds.

Drive time: .6 seconds.

Recovery time: 2.4 seconds.

Short legs!

ranger

[ranger]

If you are a lightweight 1x sculler using the erg for winter training, in your 2K training, I think you might want to try to do a lot of 1:34 @ 32 spm (13 SPI, 10 MPS).

1Ks?

If your OTW technique is ideal in other ways, that is the equivalent of 9 SPI OTW (1:46 @ 32 spm).

That's rowing well!

ranger

[PaulH]

I have never raced OTW--at all.

A perfect rangerism. Given all his predictions of how he'll do in the HOCR and other events, one might have expected him to have taken a few strokes 'in anger'. Turns out you don't need to have raced otw *at all* to know that you'll be the faster in your group there has ever been.

[lancs]

Of course I'm way off the WR in my age group. The competition in my group are professional elite athletes who don't have to squeeze a 60 hour working week alongside training 5 days a week. The competition in your group are a few enthusiastic amateurs.

I'm just wondering a) how much effort it takes the Prof to deliberately misattribute a quote to someone else, b) why he does it and c) why he continues to do it on a near daily basis?

Can it be that he's just a dimwit?

[PaulH]

Of course I'm way off the WR in my age group. The competition in my group are professional elite athletes who don't have to squeeze a 60 hour working week alongside training 5 days a week. The competition in your group are a few enthusiastic amateurs.

I'm just wondering a) how much effort it takes the Prof to deliberately misattribute a quote to someone else, b) why he does it and c) why he continues to do it on a near daily basis?

Can it be that he's just a dimwit?

It's starting to get a bit tedious, isn't it? I'm thinking of deleting any post from ranger that contains misattributed quotes. What does everyone think (including ranger, of course)? Note that I won't be looking out for misattribution, but would respond if anyone points one out (and delete the post pointing it out as well, to keep things clean).