Ranger's training thread

[jliddil]

Rich is 'Member of the Day' on the C2 log book main page.

Congrats...

Still a liar. It says his current age is 58

[ranger]

Rich is 'Member of the Day' on the C2 log book main page.

Congrats...

Still a liar. It says his current age is 58

No, born 1/25/51.

Just haven't updated my profile.

I am 59.6

ranger

[whp4]

And the likelihood of 59 year old ranger eclipsing Roy Brook's 55-59 lwt WR is .... (drum roll) zero.

While I agree with the statement, I did not write that. It is so easy to quote a post correctly and yet you are so often bedeviled by this simple task that I have to ask — do you also have trouble figuring out which way to face when sitting down at the erg?

Since 2003, I have done almost no training above my anaerobic threshold.

That's what you think due to your wildly optimistic views of your max HR, etc. As usual, you are wrong.

[ranger]

I repeat. There's nothing exceptional about your erging

So when does erging become "exceptional" for you?

The norm for most of the best rowers in and around this forum (such as you, who won BIRC gold) is to row 20-40 seconds off the WR in their age and weight division, as you do.

So, does erging become "exceptional" when you row within 10 seconds of a WR, such as Mike VB or NavHaz?

Or do you think that WR rows, such as my three, are really just run of the mill, too?

Or do you think that you need to row 10 seconds _under_ a WR for your erging to be "exceptional," so that my lowering of the 50s lwt WR by four seconds was really just ordinary stuff?

Or twenty seconds?

Or thirty, so that my goal of a lwt 6:16 at 60, which would be 26 seconds under the present 60s lwt WR, in the end, is just a big snore as well, as far as you're concerned?

ranger

[ranger]

If I row sub-6:30 on September 1st, without even sharpening for it, as I did in 2006, will _that_ be "exceptional"?

That's a dozen seconds under the present 60s lwt WR and eight seconds under Roy's 55s lwt WR.

ranger

[lancs]

So when does erging become "exceptional" for you?

Good question. No doubt you are near the top of your group of 10 rowers or so in your age group. You haven't been able to get within 3 seconds of the soft WR in the category you are able to row in for the few minutes you can dehydrate yourself down to 75kg temporarily for the weigh in. Of course I'm way off the WR in my age group. The competition in my group are professional elite athletes who don't have to squeeze a 60 hour working week alongside training 5 days a week. The competition in your group are a few enthusiastic amateurs. Of course you are a better erger than I'll ever be. So what?

The point I'll keep making here until you show us anything different is that you are not capable of rowing within 24 seconds of your alleged target. You won't row a sub-6:40 again so in that sense your rowing, whilst still very good, is not exceptional.

Your old WR rows have since been bettered. Twice. They are no longer currently exceptional.

Cue yet another string of 'ifs' from you I guess...

[leadville]

Nah.
From my "track record," it appears that I have the greatest coach in the world. Delighted with that. I wouldn't want to change coaches, either.
ranger

Nav - an excellent dissection of only the most egregious of rangerboy's many technical flaws. Alas, we can't see how his blades exit the water at the finish or enter at - or more likely after - the catch. We can't observe his stern as it bobs up and down, and we can't watch the impressive result of all that great coaching on the race course. Alas, our cowardly hero refuses to test himself anywhere other than in his basement.

Too bad. He could've raced Mike vB this weekend. Of course, rangerboy would've gotten his lying butt kicked as Mike rowed a 3:40 against the tide. Winning by three lengths. At a 28.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, rangerboy.

[ranger]

Mike rowed a 3:40 against the tide. Winning by three lengths. At a 28.

Congrats to Mike.

_Very_ nice row.

Not sure why anyone would want to do 28 spm in a 1K, though.

I guess if you can't rate up, what else can you do but rate down?

9.4 SPI is pretty extreme.

35 spm gets the same job done at 7.5 SPI.

Given that Mike does 1K on the erg at 1:38, 1:50, 12 seconds per 500m above his erg time, should be pretty close to a limit for an OTW 1K for him.

Many congrats to him on reaching that limit, though.

He is indeed rowing well!

At best, my OTW times are 18 seconds per 500m above my erg times, and most of the time, much worse than that.

That's a long, long way from 12.

Then again, it is exciting to still have a lot of room for improvement.

I keep working on it.

ranger

P.S. OTErg, 1:38 @ 28 spm is 13.3 SPI, pretty hefty stroking, and entirely needless, if you can rate 38 spm.

[ranger]

Good question.

So answer it.

The question is legitimate, no?

You are making judgments such as "nothing about your rowing is exceptional."

So what do you mean by "exceptional"?

Better than anyone else my age and weight--year after year?

Or better than anyone my age and weight has ever been?

Or better than anyone might imagine someone my age and weight could ever be?

ranger

[ranger]

Your old WR rows have since been bettered. Twice. They are no longer currently exceptional.

Well, not really.

I didn't start rowing until I was 50.

I didn't race until I was 51.

I didn't race as a lightweight until I was 52.

I was a couple months shy of 53 years old at BIRC 2003, when I pulled 6:28 (at max drag, not even knowing how to row).

No other 50s lwt over 50 has pulled sub-6:30.

I also pulled sub-6:30 when I was 55, without even preparing for it, and at 12 SPI.

I think I'll do the same thing in six weeks or so, when I am a couple of months shy of 60.

Then I will sharpen for three months and see what I can do at weight, fully trained, and rowing well at BIRC 2010.

I usually get a dozen seconds over 2K from two or three months of hard sharpening.

ranger

[ranger]

The point I'll keep making here until you show us anything different is that you are not capable of rowing within 24 seconds of your alleged target.

Two problems with this.

(1) What I show you (or not) doesn't necessarily have any bearing on what I can do, either now or when I am fully trained.

(2) Sure, distance trials and sharpening workouts are 2K predictors. But I haven't done them yet, so they do not yet have any bearing on what I can do (or not).

Yes, rowing 6:16 proves you can row 6:16. But yikes, if you are a 60s lightweight, there is quite a bit of work to be done before you rip off this result and prove your point.

The performance itself is irrelevant, if you don't do the training needed for the performance.

And racing your training is (emphatically) _not_ the way to improve.

After a _very_ short while, the only way to improve in this sport is to become more effective and efficient as a rower.

ranger

[ranger]

I suppose the big question for Mike is whether he can maintain a stroke as big as 9.4 SPI for three miles at the Head of the Charles.

If he can, he should be able to do 1:59, given his 1:47 5K on the erg, and his 12 second per 500m gap between erg time and OTW time.

At 9.4 SPI, 1:59 is 22 spm.

ranger

[Steve G]

I suppose the big question for Mike is whether he can maintain a stroke as big as 9.4 SPI for three miles at the Head of the Charles.

If he can, he should be able to do 1:59, given his 1:47 5K on the erg, and his 12 second per 500m gap between erg time and OTW time.

At 9.4 SPI, 1:59 is 22 spm.

ranger

Rich
I know sweet FA about OTW stuff, but does your comparison take in currents, winds, choppy waters, bends, debris etc.
I have never noticed any of these on the erg, although I have snagged my towel under the seat roller, and yanked my mp3 player out of my ear on numerous occasions!

Just notice that you have passed the 5000+ posts in a little over 4 years!
Steve
59.9 64 kgs

[PaulH]

Sure, distance trials and sharpening workouts are 2K predictors. But I haven't done them yet

Liar

[Carl Watts]

Yes, rowing 6:16 proves you can row 6:16. But yikes, if you are a 60s lightweight, there is quite a bit of work to be done before you rip off this result and prove your point.

ranger

The only "Work" you have proof of doing so far in the build up to this is aging ungracefully from 50 to the target of 60

YES all your distance rows are pace predictors for the 2K, amazingly they typically work out within seconds or metres if you bothered to prove to us you can actually do them, especially if your at your peak of what is acheivable for you age, which by your accounts you are. Wow by posting your distance performances you could actually prove you could pull a 6:16 EVEN BEFORE you actually did one ! amazing stuff ! no more "if's" or "when's" or several people calling you a Liar all the time.

The reality is to pull a 6:16 you would already be consistantly pulling something a few seconds slower than this once a month, not 7:00+ as you typically serve up at an event, which are our only hard facts we have to go by.

Seriously good luck with it, it would be a stunning event if you pulled it off or even got close to it.