Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

And you, C2 etc continue to enable this behavior

Yea, rowing is odd behavior, as is talking about it.

These things shouldn't be encouraged.

But, hey.

To each his own, I guess.

Nice 12K OTW this morning, after erging 12K.

Two sets of fishermen out this morning, enjoying the sunrise with me, on the Huron River above Barton Pond.

Worked on catches and releases at low rates.

Another big pool of sweat in the garage.

Erg pond.



ranger

[DUThomas]

Hi! I've been off the forum a few months. Glad to see you're still bleating.

Your 2K seems to be unchanged. Better update that (you did get faster, didn't you?).

Cheers!
David

[mikvan52]

Yes he did you obnoxious twat

Sorry.

I missed it.

So what did Mike pull for 2K in his 1x at Junior Worlds in his second year of rowing?

ranger

I was the stroke of the US's coxless four... I also did the toe steering as no one else in the boat had had prior experience with it.

I never sculled until I was out of college and, then, very little.
I started sculling in earnest in 1998 in a old '84 Kaschper. I doubt that I was in a sweep or sculling boat more than 50 times in the decade of the 80's. I ran instead to make time for work.
Marlene Royle got me started again at Craftsbury.... Great coach and a great competitor too!

In my last post on this subject I said that I've forgotten the times of my heats and finals in Greece in 1970. I believe the records have been lost....

Our Nat'l team boat wasn't super-fast compared to the powers of that age ~ mostly the East Germans... We were very small. I weighed in the 140's in that era.
We benefitted from the Rosenberg-type training under the leadership of Bill Stowe, stroke of the US's gold-medal-winning 8 in Tokyo... Rosenberg had coached that eight.... Bill and others coached at a club formed by him and Hart Perry: Litchfield Rowing Association... LRA. We trained on the Housatonic out of Kent School and came from various east and midwestern high schools.


If anyone is interested: There is a fascinating book about Stowe and his Vesper teammated written by Stowe and published in 2005.

ALL TOGETHER : The Formidable Journey to the Gold with the 1964 Olympic Crew
ISBN: 0-95-34388-0
http://www.iuniverse.com

When it came out, Bill sent me a couple of copies I had sent him a check for. He even wrote some kind words in one for me....

[Byron Drachman]

I hope no newbie watching your video thinks that you are supposed to be an example of good rowing.

Hi Mike,

You are in good company. Ranger didn't think much of our local Olympian:

http://www.lansingrowingclub.org/videopage.html

One of our learn-to-rowers wanted to know if he could do an OTW version of a biathlon: You scull as far as you can and when you fall out of the boat you swim to the finish line. Maybe they could include such an event for Ranger at Ann Arbor next year.

[mikvan52]

I hope no newbie watching your video thinks that you are supposed to be an example of good rowing.

Hi Mike,

You are in good company. Ranger didn't think much of our local Olympian:

http://www.lansingrowingclub.org/videopage.html

One of our learn-to-rowers wanted to know if he could do an OTW version of a biathlon: You scull as far as you can and when you fall out of the boat you swim to the finish line. Maybe they could include such an event for Ranger at Ann Arbor next year.

Byron: As usual, ranger overlooks the purpose of my ("slow") video.

Buzz took it and asked me to scull slowly so we could analyse the things noted in print at the outset of the video... Catch angle and effective drive.

I wonder if he ever saw the famous VCR tape of Lange sculling at a 12....
Rich would probably say the same things about him...

Oh well, try to help and get a face full of claws... temps pis!

BTW: Byron... the link doesn't play... Would you post another? Thnx.

I'm off to the races in Providence: I get to scull with Scott Roop in the early am!
http://www.brownbears.com/sports/m-crew ... 01aaa.html

[Byron Drachman]

BTW: Byron... the link doesn't play... Would you post another? Thnx.

Hi Mike,

Maybe this will work: Go to our website:

http://www.lansingrowingclub.org/

Then at the bottom of the first page click on the link to see our Olympian. I like to watch it with the speakers on.

Byron

[ranger]

I doubt that I was in a sweep or sculling boat more than 50 times in the decade of the 80's. I ran instead to make time for work.

Yea, rowing OTW takes a lot of time.

The erg takes much less time, as does running.

So, what do you do for work now?

ranger

[ranger]

I started sculling in earnest in 1998 in a old '84 Kaschper.

Ah.

So, you practiced--in earnest--for a decade or so before entering the Head of the Charles, with lots of expensive instruction, personal coaching, etc., and only after work was no longer a distraction?

You couldn't even get balanced for several years?

Ah.

ranger

[ranger]

Byron: As usual, ranger overlooks the purpose of my ("slow") video.

When I first took up sculling, I rowed at 14-16 spm for a couple of years, before I ever lifted the rate.

ranger

[Bob S.]

Go to 1:15 elapsed in this video posted on rowskills.com

http://rowskills.com/testimonials.html

I bring the rate up and the pace down (noted on the bottom of the screen)

Mike,

I am curious about your feathering. It looks like you drop your wrists initially and that you raise them later, doing a finger roll at the same time to keep the same blade angle. I didn't take up sculling until I was about 65, and I was rather disconcerted when the instructor at LBRA told us to use a finger roll rather than a wrist drop, along with dire warnings of carpal tunnel syndrome. When I first started to row, in 1932, I had heard about feathering and fooled around doing it once in a while, but there was no point to it in a heavy skiff with narrow blades. When I took up sweep rowing in 1942, I was introduced to regular feathering, using the inside hand (i.e. the hand nearest the lock) to rotate the handle. I don't remember specific instructions for using a wrist drop, but that is what I ended up using all through my sweep rowing years. I had never heard of the finger roll technique before that sculling lesson. Shortly after that, I had a chance to visit with Jim Lemmon, a team mate from 1946 and later the head coach at Berkeley. I knew that he had learned to scull as a teen-ager back in Long Beach in the 30s. I thought that perhaps the finger roll was standard practice for scullers in contrast to sweep-rowers. Jim made it clear that he had always feathered with a wrist drop for both sculling and sweep-rowing.

When I had my own boat, a Maas 26, I tried to stick with the finger roll, but I was never comfortable with it. I have checked out videos recently and it appears that most scullers use the finger roll, but there are a few notable exceptions that quite obviously use the wrist drop. Before I spotted it in your video, I had never noticed a combination of the two. This is not a criticism. At this point, I have no idea of which should be preferred, nor why. I am just curious. Has this ever come up in your conversations with Buzz?

Bob S.

[mikvan52]

I started sculling in earnest in 1998 in a old '84 Kaschper.

Ah.

So, you practiced--in earnest--for a decade or so before entering the Head of the Charles, with lots of expensive instruction, personal coaching, etc., and only after work was no longer a distraction?

You couldn't even get balanced for several years?

Ah.

ranger

Spot on!

... and I remain unbalanced... Why else would I be posting on this thread?

[mikvan52]

to use a finger roll rather than a wrist drop

Before I spotted it in your video, I had never noticed a combination of the two. .... At this point, I have no idea of which should be preferred, nor why. I am just curious. Has this ever come up in your conversations with Buzz?

Bob S.

I am getting inflexible, Bob.

Buzz wants me to get rid of the roll.
The irony is I used to use a straight wrist drop and coaches advised me to go for the roll. I worked on that for years and never quite got it right... hence the hybrid..

I kind of like the idea of doing a straight roll (w/o any drop)...
Trouble is.. I think it's harder to have a clean release with a roll..

So:
The whole thing remains a work in progress...

There are other issues that go into the mix too...
(some other time and place... I race heats and finals in the am)

[Bob S.]

Buzz wants me to get rid of the roll.
The irony is I used to use a straight wrist drop and coaches advised me to go for the roll. I worked on that for years and never quite got it right... hence the hybrid..

I kind of like the idea of doing a straight roll (w/o any drop)...
Trouble is.. I think it's harder to have a clean release with a roll..

So:
The whole thing remains a work in progress...

Thanks, Mike. I don't remember seeing this subject discussed on the forum before, but it would seem to me to be an important one. Of course it really belongs in a forum devoted to OTW rowing rather than on this one. I suppose that it has been brought up there, but I have been "on the beach" since well before I started looking at rowing topics on the internet, so I just didn't look into it. Your video sort of brought it all back to me.

Bob S.

[ranger]

Great UT!/Level 3 (FM/HM,/60min) rowing now OTErg, and hopefully I can just repeat this every day OTW, too.

24-26 spm

1:48-1:44 pace

12 SPI

123 df.

HR 155-165 bpm

Great compression and relaxation at the catch, my biggest technical struggle.

When I reach my distance targets, I will demonstrate an 8 second per 500m advantage over other near-60s and 60s lwts (and the historical standards in the sport).

No near-60s or 60s lwt can do a FM better than 1:56, a HM better than 1:53, or 60min better than 1:52.

My targets are a FM @ 1:48, a HM at 1:45, and 60min @ 1:44.

Then, during sharpening, I will know what to shoot for in order to translate this advantage in my UT1 rowing into my AT, TR, and AN training.

With this UT1/Level 3 rowing, I still have a month and a half to put in meters, building up to my distance targets and pushing my HR up to my anaerobic threshold.

In terms of quantity, the goal for my daily UT1 rowing is 20 + 20, 20K OTErg followed by 20K OTW.

This is not low rate/UT2/Level 4 rowing!

I no longer row at low rates.

No need.

My stroking power (12 SPI) is now fine.

ranger

[ranger]

Rocket Roy's 55s lwt 2K WR is only _one_ second per 500m from Brian Bailey's 60s lwt 2K WR, but over _three_ seconds per 500m from Paul Siebach's 50s lwt 2K WR and _five_ seconds per 500m from Caviston's 40s lwt 2K WR.

6:16 is _a half_ second per 500m under Caviston's 40s lwt 2K WR.

ranger