Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

Could you even get to 1:45 at ANY rate?

Sure.

No reason to, though, if 1Ks at the National level by my 60s peers are won at 2:01 pace.

ranger

[ranger]

you telling me these numbers and me telling you my numbers is stupid

No, it isn't.

ranger

[ranger]

However if you show us a video of you flipping through your speed coach displays, showing time, meters and average pace, that says a lot!

Not really.

Only for those whose fitness is poor.

That's just racing.

My fitness is great.

Racing is no problem.

ranger

[bloomp]

Could you even get to 1:45 at ANY rate?

Sure.

No reason to, though, if 1Ks at the National level by my 60s peers are won at 2:01 pace.

ranger

Wow you stupid twat, you quote my post three times and manage to attribute it to TWO authors? God damn schizophrenic.

[Byron Drachman]

June 11, 2008: I now do fine on the water. 2:00 @ 26 spm

July 12, 2010: I got to 2:00 @ 25 spm today.

Hardly an improvement. Maybe you need a faster boat.

[ranger]

June 11, 2008: I now do fine on the water. 2:00 @ 26 spm

July 12, 2010: I got to 2:00 @ 25 spm today.

Hardly an improvement. Maybe you need a faster boat.

Hmm.

More consistently 2:00 @ 30 spm a couple of years ago, and still very ragged, as in my utube video, in fact, so ragged as to be unsustainable.

In my new Fluid, I am now doing 1:56 @ 30 spm--with a smooth, clean motion.

Much more sustainable.

Important difference.

At an 18 second per 500m difference between my erg times and my OTW times, 1:56 @ 30 spm OTW is the equivalent of 1:38 @ 30 spm (12.4 SPI) on the erg.

ranger

[ranger]

The erg is a ticket for erg success not water success.

No, twice over.

First, my OTW rowing is coming along just fine. I row OTW every day, 12K now, hopefully pushing that up to 20K.

Second, it has been shown that a return to the erg in the middle of an OTW season has a significant effect on OTW performance, as much as 6-8 seconds over 2K.

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

June 11, 2008: I now do fine on the water. 2:00 @ 26 spm

July 12, 2010: More consistently 2:00 @ 30 spm a couple of years ago, and still very ragged, as in my utube video, in fact, so ragged as to be unsustainable.

Then the characterization of the ragged, unsustainable rowing as fine was not correct.

[ranger]

June 11, 2008: I now do fine on the water. 2:00 @ 26 spm

July 12, 2010: More consistently 2:00 @ 30 spm a couple of years ago, and still very ragged, as in my utube video, in fact, so ragged as to be unsustainable.

Then the characterization of the ragged, unsustainable rowing as fine was not correct.

No, not at all.

At 60, it is also an accomplishment to get a boat going 2:00 @ 30 spm, however raggedly.

Almost no 60-year-olds can do it.

Sure, a smooth 1:56 @ 30 spm is better.

But I was delighted with the 2:00 @ 30 spm, too.

At the 2009 Masters Nationals, in the 60s/F 1K, 2:01 pace won gold.

Since 2008, OTW, I have lost the gloves, lost the socks, loosened my grip, especially on my right hand, learned to keep my elbows in at the finish, re-rigged for more inboard, re-rigged higher for better bladework, upgraded my boat, learned to relax my shoulders at the catch, learned to get more forward at the catch, learned to get up on the balls of my feet at the catch, learned to stay more forward during the leg drive, learned to be quicker out of the bow at the finish, learned to control the slide more fully coming into the catch to let the boat run, and immensely improved the overall rhythm of my stroke cycle.

Result: I am now doing a smooth 1:56 @ 30 spm.

Now, when I am fully trained up for it, I think I will rate 38 spm OTW for 1K, although to get there will take quite a bit more work.

ranger

[mikvan52]

...it has been shown that a return to the erg in the middle of an OTW season has a significant effect on OTW performance, as much as 6-8 seconds over 2K.

Then show it.

[mikvan52]

I am now doing 1:56 @ 30 spm-

Are you basing this on a Garmin GPS ?
Does it give stroke rate and stroke count?

how many meters at 1:56?
I'll just assume you mean one or two strokes from here on out until you say otherwise.

Ever consider getting rowing specific software to match your nice boat?

[Nosmo]

learned to keep my elbows in at the finish

thats right, Keep them right next to the body. thats real important.

[ranger]

how many meters at 1:56?
I'll just assume you mean one or two strokes from here on out until you say otherwise.

OTW, once you can do a pace and rate smoothly and easily, it's just your fitness that limits how far you can go.

As I mentioned, this 1:56 @ 30 spm OTW is the equivalent of 1:38 @ 30 spm OTErg.

This next year, my goal for the erg is to do 4 x 2K @ 1:38.

4 x 2K is done at 2K + 4.

As I work these things up on the erg, I will also try them OTW.

In terms of fiitness, the effort seems the same to me.

On the erg, no 60s lwt has ever done much better than 4 x 2K @ 1:45.

End to end, Portage Lake is a clean, open 2.5K.

That would be a nice venue for this kind of session.

What do you do for 4 x 2K OTErg, Mike?

1:47?

Why so slow?

If you want to go faster, just rate up.



Easier said than done.

No?

Hint.

Rating down won't get you there.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

In order to make good use of the erg, which isolates your physical capacity and fitness and develops it, you need to do distance rowing for long periods--months and months, years and years.

That is, you need to get away from low rates (16-23 spm) and high effort (above 85% HRR) while rowing well (12 SPI).

This is level 3 rowing in the Wolverine Plan.

At the moment, you don't do this rowing at all.

Faced with this task, you either abandon your technique and row like shit, or lower the rate, or cut the distance (in ridiculous ways, e.g., down to 500m).

The relevant rates and paces at 12 SPI are these:

1:46 @ 24 spm
1:45 @ 25 spm
1:44 @ 26 spm
1:43 @ 27 spm
1:42 @ 28 spm

This is my project, both on the erg and OTW, for the rest of the summer, until I start sharpening for BIRC on September 1st.

A first goal for you in terms of distance would be 5K.

But as Caviston recommends, eventually, you should be able to push the distance out to 30K, as he does.

If you can't do this rowing you are just a broken down old man.

Your physical capacity and fitness are crap, and you don't have a hope in hell of winning the Head of the Charles--ever.

So time to stop fiddling with technique and buck up to the task!

Physical capacity and training are the two most important elements of boat speed.

Technique is just a distant third.

ranger

[ranger]

...it has been shown that a return to the erg in the middle of an OTW season has a significant effect on OTW performance, as much as 6-8 seconds over 2K.

Then show it.

It has already be "shown"--scientifically.

It doesn't have anything to do with me--specifically.

It is an experimental "result."

ranger