Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

[tewbz]

That being said, as I had previously commented, I do not think Bach will break 6:40, much less Waddell's record. I don't foresee anyone beating Waddell for some time.

i think you meant sub 5:40?

[ausrwr]

I'm not sure that the limit has been reached yet. Waddell's record will be beaten, there's no doubt at all.
Considering that it was done in the lead-up to (viz the day before) NZ trials, as was Drysdale's 5:39 or 38, even he has room for improvement.

I have absolutely no doubt that 5:30 will be broken, and that within the next 5 or 10 years.
On the women's side, how long until 6:20 gets broken?

[Nosmo]

I don't know if it was a record, and can't find the link, but the highest power output I've ever seen on a bicycle was for some guy who was ridiculously big. Again can't remember the numbers but it was something like 280 lbs of muscle and very tall. His power to weight ratio was not particularly impressive but his raw power was very high. He said he wasn't that good of a bike rider but his raw power was very impressive.

The same might happen for the erg. Doesn't mean that he would move a boat but the ideal body for and erg is not the same as for a boat.

[hjs]

I'm not sure that the limit has been reached yet. Waddell's record will be beaten, there's no doubt at all.
Considering that it was done in the lead-up to (viz the day before) NZ trials, as was Drysdale's 5:39 or 38, even he has room for improvement.

I have absolutely no doubt that 5:30 will be broken, and that within the next 5 or 10 years.
On the women's side, how long until 6:20 gets broken?

If we look at last 10 years we don,t see much improvement in the man's results on the erg, yes the wr is broken, but in general 5.40 ish is still more or less the best. I am also quit sure the wr will fall but sub 5.30 in 5/10 year, I don,t think so. 7 seconds on this level on this level is very very much.

[ausrwr]

More stuff to play with as I've got slightly bored with being both obnoxious and hungover this week.

I should perhaps be the latter, but not the former. That's by the by though.

One issue that really struck me last week was racing nerves. If we use the "inverted U" hypothesis, where a certain level of arousal is good for a performance, up to a point, and then it's detrimental.

How do people deal with nerves?
Too much nervousness?
Too little?

I must explain: I need a certain level of nerves/arousal* to extract a really good performance, often to the point that I'll be sick in the morning of races, or before a test ergo, so my thought are more how do people deal with nerves over the heat/rep/semi/final format, or a couple of day's racing in general?

My thoughts as they stand at the moment:
Fussing about the racing to come leads to a loss of performance. When you're sleeping very little, and sick in the gut lying in the bed waiting for sleep, performance declines. This may have had something to do with getting a bout of gastro in race week, but hey.
Things that seem to work: no caffeine after mid-day. Meditation - concentrating on breathing, or mantra, or something such as that. Disassociating oneself from the scene, the activity, and all that sort of thing seems to work.

Another ramble,

But that's just me.

What works for you?

*Arousal is sometimes the best word. One of the best 2- races I ever had was a head race where the start order was messed totally, and led to an 8+ starting in front of us and washing us off the whole way down the three miles. I was in sufficient anger that although we couldn't pass that 8, we passed an 8 that had started 90 seconds ahead, a bunch of other pairs, and never dropped below 34 the whole way down the course.

It may have something to do with the fact that my bowman now has an Olympic and Worlds silver, but I do think that hate and anger worked. I can't carry that through the day, but to get it on time for a race would be perfect!

[Bob S.]

*Arousal is sometimes the best word. One of the best 2- races I ever had was a head race where the start order was messed totally, and led to an 8+ starting in front of us and washing us off the whole way down the three miles. I was in sufficient anger that although we couldn't pass that 8, we passed an 8 that had started 90 seconds ahead, a bunch of other pairs, and never dropped below 34 the whole way down the course.

I'd call it distraction. I have had a similar experience with anger - in an entirely different context, but the same effect. Distracted by the anger, I forgot about the nervousness. For a physical activity, like a rowing competition, anger probably also has the effect of also increasing the flow of adrenaline - which can be helpful as long as it doesn't trick you into going at it too hard at the start and doing a fly and die.

Bob S.

[NavigationHazard]

*Arousal is sometimes the best word.

If memory serves, the great NZ runner John Walker claimed to have had oral sex under the stadium somewhere while warming up for the Olympic 1500m final in Montreal....

Seriously, though, I think a lot depends on the kind of athlete you are and on the competition you're facing and on the event in question. Some people, I would suggest, compete mainly to beat others. Think Jimmy Connors in his prime. Others seem more interested in overcoming themselves first, i.e. in performing at their best. Think Bjorn Borg in his prime: to me he always gave the impression of someone for whom victory was a private validation rather than a desperately sought triumph. I think nerves/adrenaline rush are likely to be far more important to the Connors type than to the comparatively self-contained Borg type of athlete.

[ThatMoos3Guy]

I always get a bad case of nerves before erg tests/races. I try not to focus on it but that never helps. I of course obsessively try to go to bed early, but that just results in me lying in bed trying to fall asleep for longer. However, one interesting thing I read a little back (forget where, will try to find it) stated that for physical tasks sleep the night before wasn't that important, that sleep two days before was actually more beneficial as well as the cumulative sleep the athlete had been getting in the whole week prior. Not sure how true this is, but I try and get a good 8-9 hours the couple of nights before an event.

[JoeF]

I didn't want to start a new thread as this one looked a likely place I thought I'd post here.
I've been erging since January and am training for the Monster Erg next February. I find this site, with the log book and the rankings to be a great motivator. For training I generally do a 30 minute session 5 or 6 mornings a week and have been gradually getting my split time down to a quasi-respectable number. Once a month or so I will do a 2000m. My PB for 30 min is about 7390m. 2000m time is 7:45. Here is my problem: I went on vacation a few weeks back and wasn't able to get to a machine every day, and when I did, it was a struggle. I was on a brand new machine and it was very hot and I struggled to get 7200m in 30 minutes. When I got back to my regular gym there were all new machines there as well and I am struggling still. I am barely getting to 7300m and my heart rate is maxed out. Prior to this I could get to 7380m and not have my heart rate maxed. Now it is maxed at 7250. I have checked the drag factor and it is at my usual number ~125 -130. Is it possible that the new machines are the source of my difficulty, or could slacking off my training for two weeks have set me back this far?
I am perplexed. I have never been any kind of athlete so training regimens and the repercussions of slacking off are a mystery to me. I appreciate any wisdom that can be shed on this.

Joe F

Age 60 5'9" 165lbs

[hjs]

I didn't want to start a new thread as this one looked a likely place I thought I'd post here.
I've been erging since January and am training for the Monster Erg next February. I find this site, with the log book and the rankings to be a great motivator. For training I generally do a 30 minute session 5 or 6 mornings a week and have been gradually getting my split time down to a quasi-respectable number. Once a month or so I will do a 2000m. My PB for 30 min is about 7390m. 2000m time is 7:45. Here is my problem: I went on vacation a few weeks back and wasn't able to get to a machine every day, and when I did, it was a struggle. I was on a brand new machine and it was very hot and I struggled to get 7200m in 30 minutes. When I got back to my regular gym there were all new machines there as well and I am struggling still. I am barely getting to 7300m and my heart rate is maxed out. Prior to this I could get to 7380m and not have my heart rate maxed. Now it is maxed at 7250. I have checked the drag factor and it is at my usual number ~125 -130. Is it possible that the new machines are the source of my difficulty, or could slacking off my training for two weeks have set me back this far?
I am perplexed. I have never been any kind of athlete so training regimens and the repercussions of slacking off are a mystery to me. I appreciate any wisdom that can be shed on this.

Joe F

Age 60 5'9" 165lbs

The machines are very likely not the problem. You time of is, for every week you don,t train you need at least the double amount of time to win that back.

Further more, you could better train a bit more with variaty. If you do the same every training your body will not addept. Do longer rows, do interval work, don,t go to max every session.
If you go to the uk site of concept you could find more about training. A simple basis approach would be the Pete Plan, which is a spin off of the wolverine plan.

http://www.concept2.com/forums/wolverine_plan.htm

http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/

[JoeF]

Thanks for the reply.
I really do think there is something different with the new machines. A fellow that I often row along side and who generally does 25,000 to 40,000km per day (in one sitting) is now having to quit at 20,000. In fact he has either quit altogether or is on vacation because he is no longer at the gym when I am. So it is not just me. But the fact is that the machines are here to stay so I will have to live with them. I am going to try the Pete Plan, but it requires some research on my part. I'm not sure how you keep track of your progress with all the different intervals and distances. Are there any links for this or should I just read the entire Pete Plan thread.

Thnks

Joe F

[Bob S.]

Thanks for the reply.
I really do think there is something different with the new machines. A fellow that I often row along side and who generally does 25,000 to 40,000km per day (in one sitting) is now having to quit at 20,000. In fact he has either quit altogether or is on vacation because he is no longer at the gym when I am. So it is not just me. But the fact is that the machines are here to stay so I will have to live with them. I am going to try the Pete Plan, but it requires some research on my part. I'm not sure how you keep track of your progress with all the different intervals and distances. Are there any links for this or should I just read the entire Pete Plan thread.

Thnks

Joe F

I had a model B for many years and a model D for the last 5 years. I have also used a model C a few times at a club and at competitions. I have never experienced what you have described. What are the two different models that you are comparing?

Bob S.

[Citroen]

A fellow that I often row along side and who generally does 25,000 to 40,000km per day (in one sitting) is now having to quit at 20,000.

Check the monitors are configured for the right model.

Main menu --> More Options --> Utilities --> LCD Contrast. Once on the LCD Contrast page press [CHANGE UNITS] three times followed by [CHANGE DISPLAY] three times to reveal the hidden menu.

[mikvan52]

press [CHANGE UNITS] three times followed by [CHANGE DISPLAY] three times to reveal the hidden menu.

It's a conspiracy! I always suspected that C2 had a 'hidden agenda'!

[hjs]

Thanks for the reply.
I really do think there is something different with the new machines. A fellow that I often row along side and who generally does 25,000 to 40,000km per day (in one sitting) is now having to quit at 20,000. In fact he has either quit altogether or is on vacation because he is no longer at the gym when I am. So it is not just me. But the fact is that the machines are here to stay so I will have to live with them. I am going to try the Pete Plan, but it requires some research on my part. I'm not sure how you keep track of your progress with all the different intervals and distances. Are there any links for this or should I just read the entire Pete Plan thread.

Thnks

Joe F

http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/the-pete-plan/

It really is not so difficult, just read it.

It is more or less 3 longer rows a week, one shorter intervals, 1 longer interval, 1 harder longer row.
For the pacing read the document. It's not difficult, just common sense really.