Ranger's training thread

[Flipper21]

I am in a very different sitation.

Trippin......... you bet you are.

[lancs]

You do have to wonder where all of Ranger's non-stop lies will end, although presumably his pathological personality disorder means we are some way from that yet I fear. For instance, when the delusional old fella pulls another (nonetheless impressive) 6:4x this year, his failure to come within 25 seconds or so will *still* be due to the fact he's not yet fully trained and not at all because he's just slowing down like everyone else his age.

The two things that (I'm ashamed to say) bring me back to this sad thread repeatedly are:

1. To point out to anyone new to the Forum that Ranger is not capable of a sub-6:40 row never mind a sub-6:20 row, and never will be.

2. To see if we ever get to the point where the Prof admits his sub-6:40 days are in the past and apologises for his lies and welching on bets..

Point 2 may take sometime to witness ..

[Nosmo]

My numbers in the boat are substantially faster than yours (such as 1:51.x pace for 500 meters at 31 spm... 7.87 spi in ranger-speak)

You say "You think" you are at about 7.0 spi for some unspecified length of time or distance.

Mike you should be ashamed of your self for even thinking about SPI and OTW rowing. You know it is complete and total nonsense. In everyday practice power is not measurable OTW. SPI, an almost useless quantity for the erg, becoming a completely useless unmeasurable quantity on the water. You might as well argue about how many angles can dance on the head of a pin. As long you engage in this nonsense on Ranger's terms, he wins.

[leadville]

ten strokes on video is enough to know rangerboy is going to be dead slow on the water. poor compression at the catch, rushing the slide, bent arm catch and using the arms too early, too much layback, no smoothness or deftness.

ranger, you're really bad. if you think you're getting better every day, and that's the way you row, you're truly living in rangerworld. you won't be able to row 1k in neutral conditions in under 4:05. At best.

[Bob S.]

You might as well argue about how many angles can dance on the head of a pin.

Greg,

First you can postulate a circular pinhead, which is a reasonable assumption. That would give you 360 degrees to work with. Then it is a matter of choosing the size of the angles that you want to use. If you take the size down to decreasingly smaller numbers of degrees, the number of angles possible gets increasingly large. Then there is the question of whether or not all the angles have the same number of degrees of arc, but that brings up further complications. Maybe that problem should be referred to Byron.

Bob S., a typo aficianado.

[ranger]

Mike--

OTW, your difficulty is how to rate 30 spm for 3 miles at the Head of the Charles without having your SPI fall to 6 SPI (2:04.5 pace) from what you are capable of, close to 8 SPI (1:53.5).

While you like to separate the two, this is exactly the same problem you have on the erg.

On the erg, your difficulty is how to rate 37 spm for 2K without having your SPI fall to 9 SPI (6:46/1:41.5 pace) from what you are capable of, close to 12 SPI (6:10/1:32.5 pace).

ranger

[ranger]

For instance, when the delusional old fella pulls another (nonetheless impressive) 6:4x this year, his failure to come within 25 seconds or so will *still* be due to the fact he's not yet fully trained and not at all because he's just slowing down like everyone else his age.

No, I will be fully trained this year, with both distance trials and sharpening.

So we will certainly find out whether I am slowing down or not.

And we won't have to wait until I race at BIRC to know the outcome.

Race preparation is itself racing.

When it comes to distance trials and sharpening, everything that you do predicts what you can do, flat out, in a 2K.

There is no mystery in the process whatsoever--and ergs don't lie.

ranger

[ranger]

ten strokes on video is enough to know rangerboy is going to be dead slow on the water. poor compression at the catch, rushing the slide, bent arm catch and using the arms too early, too much layback, no smoothness or deftness.

Depends on what you mean by "dead slow."

Relative to my potential, given my physical gifts, sure.

As I said, I am now as much as six seconds per 500m from what i could do OTW if I rowed well.

But I am improving rapidly.

OTW, I now pull 7 SPI at my best.

Mike VB does 7.87 SPI.

So, I am starting to get there.

Mike is only a couple of seconds per 500m from the limits of his potential.

I am still six seconds per 500m from the limits of my potential.

The difference due to technique is four seconds per 500m.

This concern with technique is only half the story, though.

Because of his physical limitations, Mike runs into a rate ceiling very early.

In a 5K, that ceiling is as low as 24 spm.

In a 5K, if he raises the rate beyond 24 spm, his SPI comes down proportionally, and he loses all of his technical advantage.

He doesn't have the physical horses to make efficient use of his effectiveness.

I do.

If Mike pulls 6:46 for 2K on the erg, anything that I can do under 6:30 overcomes with efficiency his four seconds per 500m advantage in OTW effectiveness.

Of course, any advances I can make in my OTW technique also cuts into Mike's four seconds per 500m technical advantage.

If you consider matters of effectiveness, sure, at the moment, I am "dead slow" OTW.

But if you consider matters of efficiency, Mike VB is "dead slow," too, and not just OTW--everywhere.

Younger rowers, who have not suffered his physical decline with age (3 seconds per 500m per decade) are a dozen seconds per 500m faster at all distances, both OTW and on the erg.

Why?

They can rate up.

Mike can't.

I can't rate up as far as a twenty-year-old, but I can rate up a hell of a lot better than Mike.

How much?

I think about six spms beyond what Mike can do.

Both OTW and on the erg, I will hold my technique together and rate 30 spm in the 5K, 34 spm in a 2K, 38 spm in a 1K.

If he holds his technique together, Mike rates 24 spm in a 5K, 28 spm in a 2K, 32 spm in a 1K.

Each spm is worth about a second per 500m.

ranger

[ranger]

To show good efficiency, while being effective, Mike VB needs to do 1:49 @ 22 spm (12.3 SPI) with a top-end UT2 HR (75% HRR), for him, with a HR of under 130 bpm, for 90 minutes, day after day.

But at the moment, 1:49 @ 22 spm for Mike is not UT2.

It's AT.

Therein lies the rub.

For Mike, 1:49 @ 22 spm is a flat out 30-min trial, HR at 155 bpm, _waaaay_ above his anaerobic threshold of 143 bpm--and he is done.

Mike misses having a UT2 pace of 1:49 by almost two training bands--eight seconds per 500m.

I also row 1:49 @ 22 spm with a HR of 155 bpm.

But given my physical capacity, for me, that is exactly 75% HRR, top-end UT2.

FM pace

ranger

[ranger]

rangerboy is going to be dead slow on the water

Yea, 2:05 @ 26 spm is only 7 SPI, but given my age, it is entirely adequate to win the Head of the Charles, something that Mike VB has ever come close to doing, and as it appears now, never will.

And when all is said and done, I don't think I will just pull 7 SPI.

OTW, I will get better and better technically as the years go by.

The limit of my technical potential is 8 SPI, not 7 SPI.

And then there is this:

When all is said and done, both OTW and on the erg, given my physical capacities, I don't think I will just rate 26 spm for 3 miles/5K, either.

I think I will rate 30 spm.

I'll post a video doing some 2:05 @ 26 spm in my new Fluid over the next couple of days, so you can see how slow I am right now--and why--even though I will be going faster than Dietz was going to win the Veterans race at the Head of the Charles 2009.

Of course, I would be delighted to hear any technical pointers you might want to offer about what I might do to get better.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

Time to get real, dude.

In a 5K, at 30 spm, you are only capable of 6 SPI, not 7.87 SPI.

Why is that?

6 SPI is wreteched.

I do _much_ better than that, and I am only a novice, a full six seconds per 500m from the limits of my technical potential.

ranger

[macroth]

In a 5K, at 30 spm...
I do...
ranger

You haven't done a 5K at any rate, let alone on the water, so what are you talking about? I guess your hallucinations can be excused by the fact that you've been posting at 2:44, 2.48, 3.01, 3.59, 4:26 and 4.42 am. That's not seizing the day, that's insomnia.

[ranger]

That's not seizing the day, that's insomnia.

No, it just depends on what part of the day you like.

For my physical activity, I prefer it when it is cool and calm--i.e., at night and just before dawn.

I sleep five hours.

So, if I go to bed at 9 p.m., I wake up at 2 a.m.

This gives me time to wake up, do my erging, eat breakfast, and do my OTW rowing--all before dawn.

Then I have all the rest of the day for other things.

Weather is beautiful in July at this time of day here in Ann Arbor.

60 degrees F. and damp from the dew.

During the middle of the day and into the afternoon, it is 90-100 degrees F. and humid, with a blazing sun.

That's wretched for any sort of physical activity--much less erging and rowing OTW for several hours.

ranger

[ranger]

You haven't done a 5K at any rate

Sure I have.

My pb for 5K on the erg is 17:10/1:43, rating 32 spm.

In that 5K trial, I did 1:36 over the last 500m.

Nice kick!

I no longer do this sort of 10 SPI rowing, though, at high drag, yanking the chain with my arms and back.

I will now do 5K at 11 SPI, 123 df., and good OTW form, leading with my legs, although I will still rate 32 spm.

ranger

[PaulH]

In a 5K, at 30 spm, you are only capable of 6 SPI, not 7.87 SPI.

I do _much_ better than that

Liar