Ranger's training thread

[redzone]

Why should I take your advice if you are no good yourself?

A persons ability in a particular field is not necessarily linked to the ability to provide instruction in that field. Some people excel but are poor teachers and some have a modicum of talent but are superb at bringing improvement in others.

Have you had much of your poetry published?

[ausrwr]

Why should I take your advice if you are no good yourself?

A persons ability in a particular field is not necessarily linked to the ability to provide instruction in that field. Some people excel but are poor teachers and some have a modicum of talent but are superb at bringing improvement in others.

Have you had much of your poetry published?

Well, to take it a step further, there's nothing that has been done or said to indicate that Ranger knows much at all about rowing or sculling or how to move a boat fast, but he's quite willing to tell people who know how to, and how to coach rowers to go fast, that they don't know what they're doing. Ranger, you haven't coached. You haven't rowed (or at least raced). Why should anyone listen to what you have to say? That's a tripartite of abuse/rhetorical question/honest question.

Rich, I am pretty good in a boat. My times say it. The level of the people I've raced with and against say it. My results say, well, that I probably didn't do the right things on the right days, but they say I'm pretty good. From the coaching I've done at Masters level I'm not too bad either. I'm not great, but I'm not crap.

The previous sentences may say that I'm an a"£$hole, but you probably reckoned that anyway.

But none of this will change a thing. You're not interested in listening to anyone or anything that doesn't confirm what you believe. Not what you THINK, but what you believe. It's difficult to believe that rational thought has entered your consideration of rowing.

Seriously: put up or shut up.

You could start racing - show what level you actually are, give yourself a basis to compare, but you don't want that, do you? It'd remove the mystery and expose your 'training paces' as the lies that they are.
You could try coaching scullers or rowers, but with your lack of achievement as a rower or coach, that would be a problem. Why would anyone listen to you?
Or you could just go the hell away, learn how to scull on your own, or even take some lessons, and come back and kick everyone's arse. You know, let your performance speak for itself?

Fat effing chance of that. You'll hide at your computer screen while the racing is on, and spout about how much better you are than the people who turn up and race and and compete and win.

You will never beat Mike. You will never beat Jim Dietz. You will never beat Spousta. I'd venture to say that you'll never beat anyone on the water, because you have to show up to race.

You are just a revolting braggart.

[mikvan52]

59 year olds do not rate 40 OTW

True.

So far.

But then again, history doesn't have to repeat itself--and therefore often doesn't.

Unprecedented things happen all the time.

That's what originality, individuality, innovation, creativity, etc., are all about.

You think that life is just more of the same, more of the same?

C'est dommage.

Then for you, life is a roaring bore.

ranger

Rich: Ever notice that innovators start from a position of knowing something about what their talking about?
I suggest you follow suit.

I just got back from a lesson w/Buzz. Even before checking this "blog-a-joke thread", I was thinking about what dedication it takes for a sculler to advance in his skills.
In the light of what you seem to be saying "more of the same" is hardly boring.

I was thinking though that perhaps you haven't recognized a fundamental difference between the erg and the boat: =>
The boat is a far more dynamic environment to master. DO you want a few "fer instances"?
#1 balance
#2 steering
#3 the fact that the boat is moving through water (rather than just a fly wheel pushing air)
#4 floatation and the associated issues of weight and displacement.

Don't get me wrong: The erg has its own challenges but they center more on fitness rather than, shall we say, grace.

I do insist to you: You can let the erg recede into secondary importance in the summer w/o sacrificing erg-season success. Ignore this and you will limit you ability to advance OTW.

I tell you what.
Try the following on your own.
Row a series of 1k pieces at different rates and see where you end up with your times.
Here's a ladder
1k's on 10-14 minute centers
SPM targets: 28 - 32 - 36 - 40

Let us know how it turns out.
I, for one, would be very interested to see if you can maintain 40 spm for 1k at any where near a pace you could at 28-30

Why would it even be desirable to row at 40 strokes per minute if you are not going faster? Elite scullers onthe int'l scene don't have to do that for 2k to set WRs...
You wouldn't be one of those who has been lured by the Siren's call of "Big" numbers, have you?

I'd like to see you become confident to the point where you are willing to face others at a starting line. It puzzles me as to why that hasn't happened yet as you claim to have sculled more meters in your life than I know I have...
Very puzzling!

[leadville]

BTW, as Zatopek showed, if you keep your HR down, even pretty short intervals (of a minute or two) can be a _very_ effective mode of training, if you do a lot of them.

What is damaging about intervals is doing them with a high HR.

If you keep your HR down, there is nothing damaging about intervals at all.

They are a great mode of training.

There is no virtue at all in rowing slowly and badly, but continuously, for long periods.

If you do that, you just train yourself to be bad and slow.

ranger

Another in the pantheon of moronic misstatements from the dangerously deluded rangerboy.

rangerboy - if you dont' get your heart rate up, you aren't doing real intervals. you're just doing steady state. intervals are specifically intended to stress the system; without stress it does not rebuild stronger - which is the purpose of training.

you are truly dumber than a box of rocks.

[Bob S.]

In a recent crossword puzzle, one of the definitions was "type of singer or fisherman." The answer turned out to be troller. The fisherman part of the definition was obvious enough, but I was puzzled about the singer part. A check in the dictionary showed that trolling is indeed a type of singing. It gave several definitions for the verb troll as applied to music: 1) to sing the parts of (as a round or catch) in succession. 2) to sing loudly. 3) to celebrate in song. Another definition, not exactly musical, but related, was to speak or recite in a rolling voice.

I was struck by how appropriate that seemed for this thread, in which the same lines are repeated over and over like the lines of a round.

In consideration of one of the definitions of troll as a noun, perhaps this thread should be retitled, "From under the bridge."

Bob S.

[mikvan52]

My limitations are that I can only go so fast... the rate doesn't seem to matter.

Sure.

Your effectiveness is limited by your efficiency.

You can't hold your technique steady and rate up.

So your high SPI OTW is useless.

Sure.

Why not be stylish, rather than a thrasher, if you are going to be slow anyway?

Lookin' good is better than lookin' bad.

ranger

This is truly a pathetic reply on your part, Rich.
First, it's inconsistent with all the negative things you've said about me in the past in relation to how you, and only you, assess my "stroking power" (spi).

Also: For you to be any kind of arbiter of OTW technique is ludicrous.
Let me insist that I do not consider my technique perfect. I work hard to continue to improve it. THis takes a long time.

You, OTOH, believe that you are able to correct imperfections entirely in a matter of just a few OTW outings.

Post some rates with their distances and paces...
None of us here are fooled by your " I am now doing ("constant" understood) 2:05 pace at 25 spm!

Why hide behind incomplete reporting unless it's just a vain attempt to pretend that you row as well as the best of your peers?

Finally: Rich: I reported a 4 x 500m session at 31-32 spm and 1:51.x pace ... seems adequate to me for efficiency according to your meager standards (spi)
It doesn't meet my ultimate goals but this thread is supposedly about YOUR training...
What gives? What IS your training (speed and uninterrupted duration)?

I anticipate continued silence from you in this regard.

Go to a race venue and test yourself... Put all the ranger ingredients into a stew and see if the result is "palatable" in the speed dept...
You'll still be in good position to go to BIRC and beat an erg to death many months from now.

[Nosmo]

"Why hide behind incomplete reporting unless it's just a vain attempt to pretend that you row as well as the best of your peers?"
Because it is the most effective way he has found to get attention. It seems to be working especially well recently.

[mikvan52]

"Why hide behind incomplete reporting unless it's just a vain attempt to pretend that you row as well as the best of your peers?"
Because it is the most effective way he has found to get attention. It seems to be working especially well recently.

I heed the words of our elder statesman, Bob S.: " the same lines are repeated over and over like the lines of a round."

Let the music continue to play thru these summer doldrums... before "hard sharpening will almost begin in the fall


" No erger aged 59 years 10 months 2 days 7 hours and 32 seconds has ever performed so well!"

[Rockin Roland]

Rich, I am pretty good in a boat. My times say it. The level of the people I've raced with and against say it.

Like winning the Britanica Cup at Henley last weekend. That was quite a convincing win you got there in the four against London. Against such stiff competition that's quite an achievement. The guys from our club, which are no slouchers, got knocked out in the semis.

Rich, take note. Winning at Henley is a much more prestigous achievement and far greater recognised on the world stage than what you've done on that piece of gym equipment. You need to get away from that erg and get into the mainstream of rowing.

[ranger]

Here is some 1:50 @ 22 spm (12 SPI), UT2 for a 6:20 2K.

df. is 123

In the video, I am rowing faster than any 60s lwt can row for 5K.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4h1pfhDke0

ranger

[ranger]

Rich, take note. Winning at Henley is a much more prestigous achievement and far greater recognised on the world stage than what you've done on that piece of gym equipment. You need to get away from that erg and get into the mainstream of rowing.

I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying this.

It has already been done, long ago.

I have been rowing OTW for seven years.

I have a new boat.

Once the weather warms up, I row OTW every day.

I am getting better and better OTW.

I get better each time I go out.

Beyond that, there is nothing wrong with rowing on the erg.

Anyway.

I have some unfinished business to complete on the erg this coming fall and winter.

I am going to pull a lwt 6:16 at 60.

That will top the 40s lwt WR, the 50s lwt WR, the 55s lwt WR, and the 60s lwt WR, not to mention to 55s hwt WR and the 60s hwt WR.

A lwt 6:16 is so out of line with current standards that it is hard to imagine that it will ever be equalled.

This year, Eskild E., the greatest lightweight in the history of the sport, pulled a lwt 6:16 at 37.

The normal decline with age is about a second a year over 2K after 20.

Eskild is following that arc of decline exactly.

If he continues to decline at the pace, the prediction is that he will pull 6:39 for 2K when he is 60.

ranger

[lancs]

In the video, I am rowing faster than any 60s lwt can row for 5K.

But to clarify, you're not rowing that pace for 5k? And you're not 60? And you're no doubt not lwt at the moment either.

If you like, I can post a video of me rowing a pace faster than anyone can row for 2k, which would have the same relevance as yours: none whatsoever..

And your video isn't visible to us....

[ranger]

But to clarify, you're not rowing that pace for 5k

When I am pulling 1:50 @ 22 spm as I am in the video, my HR is 155 bpm, steady state.

That's 75% HRR.

FM pace

UT2

5K is done at AT, for me, a HR of 175 bpm, ending at 185 bpm.

ranger

[ranger]

And your video isn't visible to us....

Yes, it is.

ranger

[Citroen]

Here is some 1:50 @ 22 spm (12 SPI), UT2 for a 6:20 2K. df. is 123

In the video, I am rowing faster than any 60s lwt can row for 5K.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4h1pfhDke0

ranger

Shame that you've marked that video as private so normal folks can't watch it.