Ranger's training thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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mikvan52
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » July 4th, 2010, 5:45 am

PaulH, Bob S. and Nosmo:

I've got a better grip now. Thanks for interceding on my behalf.

The "marathon poster-boy" is off sipping champagne instead of training. It was vain of me to try to fill the gap in his absence :wink:
In order to keep his 10 Mil. meter + 2 M.m. (erg+otw) jones going he'll undoubtably do 40k + 20k sessions when he returns to his training venues.. Which leaves me to wonder: What happened to the road trip to VT with that new Fluid :P :?: :!:

I see a new (most probable eventuality) future:

1. ranger doesn't gain entry to the 2011 HOCR as he wishes
2. ranger (on his second application does get in to the 2012 HOCR
note: Guess who will be sixty years old in 2012...? Do you give up? ....
....
....
M. v. B. (!)

Nosmo: I can be patient.

I can hear the whimpering now forthcoming in the fall '12: "I'm just learning to row! :cry: "
Having been on the water for 9 years and over 10 million meters.

" So it goes "

He'll have his excuses ready:
"No hard sharpening"
"I am a professor, not a coach"
"I think, eventually, I'll row the HOCR at 1:57 pace"

I wonder what he'll be saying at age 70?
My guess: ' No 70 year-old has ever erged faster than he did as a 52 year-old. THis is my long-term goal. '
:D :shock:

Nosmo
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by Nosmo » July 4th, 2010, 9:39 am

mikvan52 wrote:What happened to the road trip to VT with that new Fluid
I've asked him the same thing several times.

mikvan52 wrote: I see a new (most probable eventuality) future:

1. ranger doesn't gain entry to the 2011 HOCR as he wishes
2. ranger (on his second application does get in to the 2012 HOCR
but doesn't make it to the starting line

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Rockin Roland
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by Rockin Roland » July 4th, 2010, 6:42 pm

Ranger,

There were some fundamental errors with your rowing technique that I pointed out to you from your video. You say that all those issues with your technique have since been fixed. Given that the video was taken less than six months ago and that it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, how could you possibly turn things around so quickly.

This is even more difficult to believe knowing that you refuse to listen to others, even if it's positive critique, and have received no coaching in that time. I know you couldn't have done it on a static erg because they are notorious for encouraging poor rowing form. So the obvious question is when and how?

From where or from whom did you learn to row correctly in such a short space of time?
PBs: 2K 6:13.4, 5K 16:32, 6K 19:55, 10K 33:49, 30min 8849m, 60min 17,309m
Caution: Static C2 ergs can ruin your technique and timing for rowing in a boat.
The best thing I ever did to improve my rowing was to sell my C2 and get a Rowperfect.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » July 5th, 2010, 6:36 am

:idea:
Rockin Roland wrote:Ranger,

There were some fundamental errors with your rowing technique that I pointed out to you from your video. You say that all those issues with your technique have since been fixed. Given that the video was taken less than six months ago and that it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, how could you possibly turn things around so quickly.

This is even more difficult to believe knowing that you refuse to listen to others, even if it's positive critique, and have received no coaching in that time. I know you couldn't have done it on a static erg because they are notorious for encouraging poor rowing form. So the obvious question is when and how?

From where or from whom did you learn to row correctly in such a short space of time?
I have a number of responses to this, Roland.

(1) The "fundamental errors" in my rowing technique that you point out are really very few and are easily corrected. Sure, I used to have a _host_ of errors in my technique, but not now. I have labored for seven years to eliminate them. The errors you point out have to do with (1) reducing the drag and (2) relaxing my shoulders at the catch. I am vividly aware of these things. No need for you (or a coach) to point them out. Nothing on the erg prevents me from working on these things. I reduced the drag to 123 df. a couple of months ago. I work every day, both OTW and off, with relaxing my shoulders at the catch. What would say that I can't do this? I am rowing about 30K a day, if you include both my erg meters and OTW meters. This is about 3000 strokes. That's quite a bit of practicing. No?

(2) I have been rowing OTW for seven years. I _don't_ just row on a static erg. I now have a new Fluidesign 1x, the best single made, and row very well (e.g., a few days ago I was doing 2:10 at 22 spm, _very_ good rowing for someone 60 years old). From May to October, weather and access to water permitting, I row every day OTW.

(3) On the erg, I am now very naturally and habitually doing 1:45 @ 25 spm (12 SPI), using exactly the same stroke I use OTW. This is rowing as well as you, a quality 40s heavyweight, albeit one that is 20 seconds off of WR race; or rowing like a 40-year-old lightweight WR-holder such as a younger Mike Caviston. I can hardly be disappointed with this. It is at least 10 seconds per 500m better than anyone my age and weight.

(4) I have just returned from a trip down to Illinois for a family wedding and therefore haven't been home, but I would be delighted with supply videos of my present erging and OTW rowing. I would be happy to hear your critique, although given your very modest accomplishment both OTW and off and my much superior accomplishment (so far, on the erg, but eventually, I think, OTW, too), given my age and weight, I think anything you say is just talking to yourself, rather than talking to me. Sure, you have massive limitations, but I don't have any at all. In fact, given my age and weight, on the erg, I am now as much as 10 seconds per 500m _beyond_ the acccomplishment of any of my peers. If you were in that position, you would be pulling the Open WR on the erg. My OTW rowing is now getting very good, too. There are only a handful of folks my age who are any better. Good luck with it. And good luck with talking to yourself. You need it. I don't. I already have the best coach in the world.

(5) Sure, I would love to row perfectly. But no other 60s rowers do, so demanding that I do is just unrealistic and obtuse. 60s rowers race 15 seconds per 500m slower than younger rowers, and some of the slow down is technical. The rowing stroke is a pretty athletic affair, and at 60, it is difficult to retain _all_ of your youthful athleticism. Good luck with trying to do it yourself. I will certainly be around to check out what you can do when you are 60. Honestly, Roland, I think it will probably be _very_ modest. Age takes it toll. I row _very_ well for a 60-year-old. But my guess is that when you are 60, you won't. So it is pretty odd for you to be on your high horse here about my technical faults when it is really you, not me, who is incapable.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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mikvan52
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » July 5th, 2010, 7:16 am

There's a dose of lucidity in the above, but then it fades. Like saying "I am a 60 year-old rower" when the calendar shows you are, in fact, 59. ...then the personal attack tactic returns, rearing its ugly head, virtually guaranteeing that ranger retains the trophy he most ardently seeks: The nether orifice award.

Might I suggest that it is illogical to say that because a person rows many, many meters he consequently rows well both on the erg and on the water. These two disciplines are quite different as I, and others, have been so tiresome to point out. You have mastered excellent form for one of the two.

Welcome back from your forum absence. Where was the wedding again, Punxsutawney, Pa.?? :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ4aK9GIsTA

In any case
I sense repeat predictions are just around the bend. :D
Fasten your seatbelts!

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=tRNaqBac9 ... re=related

This youtube will have to do until we have something of the "Windhover" in flight :)
Perhaps Byron Drachman would be willing to drive down to assist with the camera work? He could wear the rangeresque wool hat he won in a bet these many seasons ago......

You want a prediction?

Last edited by mikvan52 on July 5th, 2010, 7:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by PaulH » July 5th, 2010, 7:39 am

I'm worried that someone has hacked ranger's account. Look at the size of those paragraphs, it's clearly not the real ranger...

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » July 5th, 2010, 8:48 am

I no longer wear gloves and/or socks OTW, as I did for many years.

Now, OTW, without the gloves and socks, I no longer get chafing/blistering of my hands/feet anymore, either, even if I row 10-15K.

This means that I am now holding the oars loosely, feathering cleanly, and leveraging effectively.

No gripping, lurching, or tugging.

Delighted with this.

At the same rate, in my Fluid, I now do 18 seconds slower than my erg times.

About 7 SPI.

Therefore, the 1:45 @ 25 spm that I am doing on the erg every morning is equivalent to 2:03 @ 25 spm OTW.

Yep.

That's what I am now doing OTW.

In the Veterans race last year, Dietz won the Head of the Charles with 2:06 pace (20:20).

Spousta and Meyer came in second with 2:08 pace (20:40).

Lookin' good.

I am now rowing OTW in my Fluid every day.

I erg 10-20K every day, too, before I go out OTW.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on July 5th, 2010, 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » July 5th, 2010, 9:02 am

Roland--

Do you row every day on the water, as I do, or are you more of a land-locked, erging, gym rat, like most of those who post here?

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ausrwr » July 5th, 2010, 9:15 am

Rich, from sharing a stretch of river with Roland for many years, I can tell you that he rows most days. Sweep and scull both.

Now, back to being rude about you for a change. So, you're sculling as well as anyone your age? Prove it. Enter a race.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by lancs » July 5th, 2010, 10:44 am

ranger wrote:My OTW rowing is now getting very good, too. There are only a handful of folks my age who are any better.
Interesting point given the number of races you've entered OTW. The same number as me infact: zero.

Like Paul H, I did actually wonder whether someone had hacked into your account to post that reply to Roland's suggestions as it was particularly vulgar, even for a personality-disordered numbskull like you...

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Byron Drachman
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by Byron Drachman » July 5th, 2010, 11:16 am

MikeVB wrote:Perhaps Byron Drachman would be willing to drive down to assist with the camera work? He could wear the rangeresque wool hat he won in a bet these many seasons ago......
Hi Mike,

I'll be racing in the Ann Arbor regatta so maybe I will see Ranger eating popcorn and hotdogs on the sidelines. I hope he doesn't spill any mustard on his shirt.

Perhaps after the regatta we could do some filming. I doubt that we will ever see Ranger racing at any local OTW regattas. I don't think he would want to risk recording a slower time than a 72-year old sculling with wooden spoons in an antique wooden boat. Imagine the humiliation.

Byron

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » July 5th, 2010, 11:39 am

ausrwr wrote:Rich, from sharing a stretch of river with Roland for many years, I can tell you that he rows most days. Sweep and scull both.
Ah.

Well.

Good to hear that Roland is not a numb-skull gym rat who just rows indoors and therefore doesn't know his ass from his elbow about OTW rowing.

From his comments here, I thought he might be.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on July 5th, 2010, 12:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » July 5th, 2010, 11:45 am

mikvan52 wrote: saying "I am a 60 year-old rower" when the calendar shows you are, in fact, 59
Yea, I am really only 59.5 years old, not 60.

Huge distortion of the truth to claim that other six months, especially when I will only be 60.1 at WIRC 2011.

Anyway.

There are certain benefits to being a youngster.

For intance, it gives me plenty of time to crush the 55s lwt WR at BIRC 2010 at the end of November, when I will be 59.9.

My wife has given me permission to go.

I love it when a plan comes together!

ranger
Last edited by ranger on July 5th, 2010, 12:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » July 5th, 2010, 11:50 am

Byron Drachman wrote: I'll be racing in the Ann Arbor regatta so maybe I will see Ranger eating popcorn and hotdogs on the sidelines.
Good luck in the Ann Arbor regatta, Byron.

I will be in Door County, WI, at my summer home, so I will miss it.

I will still be working hard OTW there, though, hopefully as much as as 20K a day.

You can outrow me in a sprint?

If so, you are doing _very_ well.

Can you do 3:50 for 1K OTW?

I suspect that I can.

That is just ho-hum for a 60-year-old heavyweight, but it would be pretty good for a 72-year-old lightweight.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on July 5th, 2010, 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » July 5th, 2010, 12:15 pm

mikvan52 wrote:Might I suggest that it is illogical to say that because a person rows many, many meters he consequently rows well both on the erg and on the water.
Might I suggest that if a person is a 60-year-old lightweight and does his everyday rowing, 1:45 @ 25 spm (12 SPI) on the erg and 2:03 @ 25 spm (7 SPI) OTW, he rows _very_ well?

On the erg, the hammer row for the 60s lwts at WIRC 2010 was 7:04/1:46 pace.

The Veterans/60s race at the Head of the Charles 2009 was won at 2:06/20:17.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on July 5th, 2010, 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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