Ranger's training thread

[mikvan52]

No 60s lwt in the history of indoor rowing has ever had a UT1 pace better than 1:50.5, Brian Bailey, the 60s lwt 2K world record holder.

No other 60s lwt has had a UT1 pace much better than 1:52.

No 60s lwt has ever done 16K for 60min.

Right now, Mike VB's UT1pace on the erg is about 1:52, although he is only 58, not 60.

By the time Mike is 60, he will also struggle to do 16K/1:52 for 60min.

ranger

What I take from this statement (which you repeat frequently) is that you intend to show superiority on the erg throughout our friendly rivalry. Right now it's me who has the most recent fast time at an hour... As for the present and future... I am not going to focus on the erg. My sights are set on doing what needs to be done to get my lifetime best finish at the HOCR...\

So, you see, we each have different "unfinished business" that doesn't seem to overlap...
You have no intention to race OTW (anytime soon). I race a couple of times on the erg in the wintertime only.. to stay in shape.
If you were a "game" type of guy you'd give the OTW stuff a whirl with your new $7,000 boat... & we could compare notes.
Owning an elite racing shell doesn't make you an elite sculler, you know....

Registration is still open for Masters Nationals... If you want you could ship the "WIndhover" down and someone else could give it a spin... We could check it out for you.

[ranger]

I guess I'll just tool along in my single and forget the erg

Sure.

Given your physical decline with age, nothing else is possible.

Good luck with it.

At the moment, you are stuck, as we 60s lwts all are, at about a 18 second per 500m difference between your erg times and your times OTW.

Perhaps fiddling with technique can get you a few tenths of a second over 5K--here and there--if you spend 100% of your time OTW, and don't do anything else.

At the same time, your physical capacity will be declining at about a half a second per 500m per year.

And Spousta and Dietz will also have close to 50 seconds in handicap time over 3 miles that you will need to overcome to win HOTC after you turn 60.

ranger

[ranger]

we each have different "unfinished business" that doesn't seem to overlap

On the contrary.

OTW, 60s lwts who row well all do about 18 seconds per 500m off of their erg times.

So, there is _total_ overlap between erging and rowing OTW.

Unless you can demonstrate something different in your "verified performances," which you haven't done yet, excuse the pun and cliche, we are all in the same boat.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

There is no longer anything wrong at all with my rowing on the erg or OTW.

I am pulling 11-12 SPI on the erg and 7 SPI OTW.

My technique is the same with both, and both feel the same in terms of effort expended at the same rate.

My OTW times are eighteen seconds per 500m off of my erg times at the same rate--across the board.

1:46 @ 26 spm on the erg is 2:04 @ 26 spm OTW--etc.

This means that if I can rate 32 spm for 5K on the erg, I can do 5K OTW at 32 spm, too.

In terms of pace, that's 1:57.

Delighted with this.

Perfect.

Of course, since your stroking is just the same, you could also do 1:57 for 5K OTW, if you could rate 32 spm.

But you can't.

If you hold your technique together, you prefer 24 spm.

ranger

[auerli]

I am pulling 11-12 SPI on the erg and 7 SPI OTW.

My technique is the same with both, and both feel the same in terms of effort expended at the same rate.

...wanted to highlight this just in case anyone missed it - brilliant

[becz]

The video was taken rowing at max drag, which makes you shorten up and use your upper body both more and somewhat out of sequence, in order to maximize effectiveness and efficiency.

Wrong again. It is clear in the video that the damper is only at about 6.

Rich - I noticed you didn't reply to this. The video in which you claim that the poor technique we see is due to rowing at max drag - indeed the reason you gave for all of your poor performances this past season - is clearly being rowed with the damper set at 6. So what's the story? Was this piece rowed at max drag?

[ranger]

Mike--

Any improvement in your erg scores would indeed translate to an improvement in your OTW scores.

It just seems that, because of your steep physical decline from year to year, no matter how hard you try, you can't improve your erg scores.

So the hell with it.

Who needs the erg, anyway?

I'm hearin' ya.

I'm hearin' ya.

Hey, if I were you, I'd do the same thing.

But I'm not you.

My erging is getting better and better.

But if your erging is _not_ getting better, as yours isn't, hey, the only thing left is fiddling with OTW technique.

So, go for it.

ranger

[PaulH]

There is no longer anything wrong at all with my rowing on the erg or OTW.

Liar

[ranger]

There is no longer anything wrong at all with my rowing on the erg or OTW.

Liar

If you are a 60s lwt and are going along 1:46 @ 26 spm on the erg and 2:04 @ 26 spm OTW, you should be delighted, as I am.

If your technique is that good, there is no need to get any better.

Just rating 28 spm for 5K would set the 60s lwt WR on the erg and win the Head of the Charles.

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

Oct 16, 2006: FM in 1:48, HM in 1:45--coming up soon

June 12, 2007: A full brace of distance pbs are coming up very soon now.

March 23, 2008: BTW, when I break Slocum's record at the end of April --snip--The end of April will come soon enough

December 20, 2008: I'll soon be putting thiis rowing on a clock and reporting times, rates, and heart rates for various distances, 60min-30K.

February 3, 2009: A HM at 1:45? Yea. I can. Coming up soon.

June 28, 2010: Well, we'll soon see what I can do for 5K on the erg

[lancs]

Thanks for the reminder Byron of just what a lying toe-rag we're dealing with here....

[PaulH]

There is no longer anything wrong at all with my rowing on the erg or OTW.

And yet just a few days ago...

I am still working on all sorts of technical flaws, but I am certainly getting better, as you will see.

One or the other of those can be true, but not both. Hence, you're a liar.

[ranger]

There is no longer anything wrong at all with my rowing on the erg or OTW.

And yet just a few days ago...

I am still working on all sorts of technical flaws, but I am certainly getting better, as you will see.

One or the other of those can be true, but not both. Hence, you're a liar.

O.K., sure.

There is always room to improve--theoretically.

As it turns out, younger lightweight rowers can get their OTW times within 12 seconds per 500m of their erg times.

If I do that, I will go 1:46 @ 26 spm on the erg and 1:58 @ 26 spm OTW.

But it seems that even those like Dietz and Mike VB don't row that well OTW.

When I say that there is nothing wrong with my stroke OTW, I mean that there is nothing that Mike VB (or Dietz or Spousta, or...) does that is any better, and therefore there is nothing that I need to do better in order to compete at the highest level with the best 60s rowers OTW.

ranger

[PaulH]

One or the other of those can be true, but not both. Hence, you're a liar.

O.K., sure.

I was starting to wonder whether I should continue pointing out that you're a liar when you lie. But now I know you agree that you are in fact a liar, I feel much better.

When I say that there is nothing wrong with my stroke OTW, I mean that there is nothing that Mike VB (or Dietz or Spousta, or...) does that is any better, and therefore there is nothing that I need to do better in order to compete at the highest level with the best 60s rowers OTW.

Let's see the video of your new stroke then. I assume there is such a thing, because you've specifically stated that you no longer bury the bow. Perhaps the only thing that's harder than not doing that is reliably knowing whether you're doing it or not, but you're so adamant that you must have video footage that you've analyzed. So show it.

[Nosmo]

therefore there is nothing that I need to do better in order to compete at the highest level with the best 60s rowers OTW.

Learn to show up?