Ranger's training thread

[jliddil]

The video was taken rowing at max drag, which makes you shorten up and use your upper body both more and somewhat out of sequence, in order to maximize effectiveness and efficiency.

Wrong again. It is clear in the video that the damper is only at about 6.

[JohnBove]

Skeptics are fools.

And what: gullibility is wisdom?

Skepticism is far better than you deserve. Utter disbelief is what's appropriate.

You're a liar and an asshole.

[JohnBove]

At WIRC 2011, I am going to pull a lwt 6:16.

As you claimed in 2010 and 2009 and 2008. you revolting, pathetic douchebag.

[ranger]

Mike--

I don't think that we disagree about rate OTW at all.

Sure, OTW, at 2:06 pace, I would rate 25 spm, as you and Dietz do, just as I would rate 25 spm if I did a 5K at 1:48 on the erg, 18 seconds per 500m faster at the same rate.

But none of us would rate 25 spm if we wanted to do 2:02 OTW, but something more like 28 spm.

And if we wanted to do 1:57 OTW, we woud want to raise that rate to 32 spm.

So, we have no differences on this point at all, either in theory or in practice.

Let the wheel spin!

Let the boat run!

To be maximally efficient, you want to keep your erging SPI at 11-12; your OTW SPI at 7.

The reason the best 60s rowers don't raise the rate OTW has nothing to do with technique.

It has to do with aerobic capacity.

Because of physical decline with age, they can't blow enough air.

The best 5K on the erg by a 60s lwt is 1:44.5.

At an 18 second per 500m differential between erg and OTW paces at the same rate, that's the equivalent of 2:02.5 OTW, or right around 20:00 for the Head of the Charles.

To do any better than 20:00 at the Head of the Charles, lightweight 60s rowers would have to do better than 17:25 for 5K on the erg. (Heavyeight rowers would have to do something better than 16:40.)

But can they?

No one has yet, although my target for 5K on the erg for this next year is 16:30.

If a lightweight 60s rower could do 16:30 for 5K on the erg (a heavyweight 60s rower, 15:50), it is entirely possible, if not expected, that they could do 1:57/18:50 at the head of the Charles--rating 32 spm., rather than 25 spm.

On the erg, they would just hold their technique together (at 11.3 SPI, for lightweights, 12.5 SPI for heavyweights), as they do OTW, and rate 32, too, as younger rowers do.

That's what I will try to do this next fall and winter when I do 5K trials on the erg during my sharpening for BIRC and WIRC.

Physical capacity and training--by far--are the two most important elements of boat speed.

Technique is a distant third.

ranger

[ranger]

The same holds for sprints.

If I can rate 38 spm for 1K OTW when I am 60, rather than 28 spm, as other 60s rowers do, I will just blow away from everyone from the start, and that will be the end of it.

I will win by 20 seconds.

For older rowers, especially rowers as old as 60, compared to the effect of exceptional physical capacity and training on boat speed, trying to squeeze extra boat speed out of small changes in technique is just fiddling around.

ranger

[hjs]

At WIRC 2011, I am going to pull a lwt 6:16.

As you claimed in 2010 and 2009 and 2008. you revolting, pathetic douchebag.

eh and 2007 and 2006 and 2005


Does anybody know his average race result? It's above 7.00 with only a few 6.4x s trown in

[ranger]

Once you can row effectively (13 SPI at low rates for lightweights; 16 SPI at low rates for heavyweights), the only sessions you ever have to do in your day-to-day rowing on the erg are negative-splitting and UT1.

Start at 22 spm and a top-end UT2 HR and work toward 29 spm and a top-end UT1 HR.

That is, lift your heart rate each day through the entire UT1 training band.

Just go with the flow in getting from 22 spm to 29 spm, as you feel that day.

Never row so hard or so long that you can't row the next day.

If you row slower, row longer.

If you row faster, row shorter.

Try to do at least an hour, but don't feel shy about doing as much as two hours, if you row more slowly.

Do this every day.

And that's it.

IMHO, this is the best training plan on the erg for rowing.

ranger

[ranger]

These implications are fated.

No way to get around them.

To do a 2K at 6:16/1:34, you need to do a 5K at 16:30/1:39.

To do a 5K at 1:39, you need to have a UT1 pace of 1:43.

The have a UT1 pace of 1:43 you need to have a UT2 pace of 1:48.

So that's what I am working on.

ranger

[ranger]

UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1
UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1
UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1
UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1
UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1
UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1
UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1
UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1
UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1
UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1
UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1
UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1UT1

The rower:

He/She who is of repetition the most master.

--Wallace Stevens (albeit, with reference to the poet, not the rower)

[ranger]

No 60s lwt in the history of indoor rowing has ever had a UT1 pace better than 1:50.5, Brian Bailey, the 60s lwt 2K world record holder.

No other 60s lwt has had a UT1 pace much better than 1:52.

No 60s lwt has ever done 16K for 60min.

Right now, Mike VB's UT1pace on the erg is about 1:52, although he is only 58, not 60.

By the time Mike is 60, he will also struggle to do 16K/1:52 for 60min.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

As a lightweight, if you can do 1:48 @ 25 spm with a UT2 HR on the erg, your technique is good.

If not, not.

But 1:48 is AT for you, not UT2.

Why?

AT is UT2 - 11.

ranger

[ranger]

Things are looking _very_ good for my OTW rowing.

At 18 seconds per 500m above erg scores, which seems to be what the best 60s rowers do, and what (thanks to the Fluid) I am now doing, too, the 60s race at the Head of the Charles this last year was won (by Dietz) with something comparable to a 5K erg score of 1:48/18:00. Spousta was second with something comparable to a 5K erg score of 1:52/18:40.

Well, we'll soon see what I can do for 5K on the erg, but I think it will be something closer to 1:40/16:40 than 1:48/18:00.

My target is 1:39.

ranger

[ranger]

Gorgeous weather forecast for this week in Ann Arbor:

Sunny, sunny, sunny, sunny, sunny.

High temperatures for the week at around 80 degrees F.

Unusual.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Mike--

As a lightweight, if you can do 1:48 @ 25 spm with a UT2 HR on the erg, your technique is good.

If not, not.

But 1:48 is AT for you, not UT2.

Why?

AT is UT2 - 11.

ranger

What does the erg have to do with technique?



The fast guy in the bobble-hat does just fine! Do you call what you're doing there good technique? It's fast.
Rich: I hate to break it to you but good erg score have no one-to one relationship with good technique.
Think about that while you hide out in your garage on these pretty summer days.

As for my rowing:
I guess I'll just tool along in my single and forget the erg since two golds and a bronze at WIRC is no good...
(BTW: What's your record there in the last 3 years?)
Remember what you said: "There's no point" in rowing another 6:4x 2k at any erg venue... you've "been there and done that"

How about an OTW 1k at 4:00 in this calendar year raced against other boats... There's something you haven't done.
If you can do one of those this year you'll not do 5k at the same pace nest year.... (my assessment of a progress line)

When are you going to do post anything definitive showing good speed and technique OTW?... the day before the HOCR in the year 2020?

[mikvan52]

Mike--

I don't think that we disagree about rate OTW at all.

(snip)

Physical capacity and training--by far--are the two most important elements of boat speed.

Technique is a distant third.

ranger

Rich: We agree on a few elements but this last statement...."technique a distant third" (my gosh!)

I'm glad so few take your assessment to heart...

If you watch footage of OTW racing you will see guys you know w/great erg scores come in way behind those with (less great) slower erg scores... the diffeRence (?): technique