Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

Based on your (repeated) statement that you don't erg by looking at the numbers, what do you base "when I sharpen this fall, I think I'll do 5K @ 1:43 at the beginning of each session, as a warm up" on?

I am not timing pieces, but sure, I am aware of my general level of effort (both subjectively, and using a heart rate monitor) as I am rowing certain paces and rates, steady state.

As I mentioned, this morning, I was doing 1:55 pace with a heart rate in the 120s!

Again, that's five seconds per 500m better than I used to do.

1:55 is UT2 for a 6:40 2K.

My UT2 heart rate is 145 bpm.

I am rowing 1:48 with a heart rate of around 150 bpm.

My anaerobic threshold is 172 bpm.

To get good at rowing, there is no need to race anywhere.

You just need to row 1-2 hours a day, working hard on effectiveness and efficiency, taking good strokes, until rowing well becomes habitual, automatic, unconscious, inevitable.

Rowing is repetitive.

Stroke, stroke, stroke, stroke, stroke.

Steady state repetition doesn't have to be rigorously timed.

It is obvious what is happening--or not.

ranger

[ranger]

Tried to actually do a 5k at that pace and failed, eh?

You don't fail at a trial until you try it.

But there is no reason to even try a trial until you're ready.

Until then, it's just training, 1-2 hours of working hard on effectiveness and efficiency.

There's nothing else to be done.

Racing your training just wastes your opportunity to improve by avoiding training (i.e., avoiding that 1-2 hours of hard work on effectiveness and efficiency).

Not smart.

ranger

[ranger]

Amazing how all of these improvements are nowhere to be seen when you sit down to race.

Ironically, what you can do for 2K at any point in your training tells you very little about what you can do for 2K at your best, when you are fully trained.

In training for a 2K, the only "race/trial" that matters much is a 60min row.

60min is done at 2K + 10.

Everything else is predictable.

BTW, I pulled my 2Ks this winter at max drag with a cut slide, so dropping the drag (123 fg.) and lengthening the slide is a new improvement, one that I have yet to use in a race.

"Nowhere to be seen?"

On the contrary, in my races this winter, I pulled right around WR pace for 2K without even preparing for it.

No one my age and weight (or older) came within 20 seconds of 6:41.

ranger

[whp4]

Amazing how all of these improvements are nowhere to be seen when you sit down to race.

The only "race/trial" that matters much is a 60min row.

Which explains why everyone tracks and compares their 2K performance. Thanks for straightening that out

60min is done at 2K + 10.

By some, perhaps. Not by the guy with the WR for the hour, nor by the guy with the WR for 2K.

Everything else is predictable.

Right. Too bad your hero Reid Frawd didn't get your memo, so you both could submit fraudulent entries that were consistent with each other. He's only good for 16514 for the hour by your system, yet he claimed 17132.

BTW, I pulled my 2Ks this winter at max drag with a cut slide.

just like you did in the old days. Nice of you to make it an apples-to-apples comparison for us!

[chgoss]

Based on your (repeated) statement that you don't erg by looking at the numbers, what do you base "when I sharpen this fall, I think I'll do 5K @ 1:43 at the beginning of each session, as a warm up" on?

...
this morning, I was doing 1:55 pace with a heart rate in the 120s!
...

so, you do everything in the "rowing with breaks" fashion.. (rowing for a while, resting, rowing for a while, resting). Even on your recovery days where your HR never goes above 129. I didnt realize that...

so you fool yourself into thinking that 1:55 is a recovery pace for you... just like the way you fool yourself into thinking that since you can row for a while at 1:45, rest, row for a while, rest, all with your heart rate never going above 180, that's your full marathon pace..

rich, that's a really fascinating piece of self deception you got going on partner....

[ranger]

Which explains why everyone tracks and compares their 2K performance.

Sure, in races.

This year, no one my age and weight (or older) came within 20 seconds of my 2K time.

My next race is BIRC 2010.

ranger

[ranger]

so you fool yourself into thinking that 1:55 is a recovery pace for you...

Depends what you mean by recovery.

I row 1:55, steady state, at under 60% HRR.

No foolin'.

I always work harder than that, though.

For me, pulling 1:55 is a waste of time.

I don't take recovery days.

I work pretty hard every day, HR 155-165 bpm, usually, not in the 120s.

1:48 @ 25 spm is FM pace.

So once I warm up, that is usually a minimal pace for me during a session.

Then I raise the rate from there.

ranger

[chgoss]

so you fool yourself into thinking that 1:55 is a recovery pace for you...

Depends what you mean by recovery. I row 1:55, steady state, at under 60% HRR. No foolin'.
...
i'm the greatest...
....

The key part of my post of course, was not that you take easy days.. but the self deluded state of mind you live in... you've got yourself convinced that you'll someday be able to row continuously, that which you now take very frequent rest periods in.. AND, you'll be able to accomplish that with out getting "fitter" (your conditioning is currently maximal).

that's the amazing part, the self deception. Your mind somehow manages to reconcile the vast gulf between the 4 or 5 actual timed pieces you do a year, and the RWB deception.

doesnt sound healthy rich..

[ranger]

you've got yourself convinced that you'll someday be able to row continuously

You mean, it is only because I have done things like row continuously 80K @ 1:56 in the past that I think I will be able to row a few minutes continuously now?

Yea.

How unreasonable.



Chad, wake up, dude.

I spent the better part of my life doing things like 30-mile runs--for fun.

I don't have any problem with endurance.

I am working on technique, not fitness.

Effectiveness and efficiency, not pulling hard.

I am not new to working continuously.

I am new to rowing.

I am trying to master the sport, not my physiological response to the sport.

Been there, done that.

Over and over.

I have three WR rows.

ramger

[ranger]

Injured myself yesterday in a fall.

Fell off of my front steps onto the sidwalk in the dark, going out to turn off a sprinkler that we had left on accidentally.

Caught myself with my right palm, elbow, and shoulder.

But still pretty nasty business.

Cut up my left big toe.

Must have hit pretty hard on my elbow and palm.

Numb forearm, tinglely fingers, and a weak right grip.

Rowing is out until I recover.

I can't hold the handle with my right hand hard enough to get a good stroke.

I can get about 75 kgs. of peak power for a while, 35 kgs. below normal, but not very long.

Guess I'll do some long biking for a couple of days.

ranger

[ranger]

When I get my grip back in my right hand, which should be soon, I think I am now ready for some distance trials, 1:47 @ 28 spm (10 MPS, 10.2 SPI).

60min first.

Then a HM.

Then a FM.

A little lighter stroke, to maximize efficiency.

If I get these done, I'll stiffen up the stroke a bit and do some trials, 1:43 @ 29 spm (11 SPI, 10 MPS).

6K first.

Then 30min.

Then 10K.

Then 60min.

These rows would all be pbs.

ranger

[chgoss]

you've got yourself convinced that you'll someday be able to row continuously

You mean, it is only because I have done things like row continuously 80K @ 1:56 in the past that I think I will be able to row a few minutes continuously now? Yea. How unreasonable.

I guess that really is the crux of how what you say makes sense in your world... "All I have to do is row continuously what I now take breaks doing, and the job is done"
What's amazing, is that year after year, the gulf grows between what you actually do, and what you say you will be doing.. and yet, the rationalization still maintains it's grip.. I hadnt connected that last dot until I saw that you did your recovery rows in "rowing with breaks" fashion also.

[ausrwr]

When I get my grip back in my right hand, which should be soon, I think I am now ready for some distance trials, 1:47 @ 28 spm (10 MPS, 10.2 SPI).

60min first.

Then a HM.

Then a FM.

A little lighter stroke, to maximize efficiency.

If I get these done, I'll stiffen up the stroke a bit and do some trials, 1:43 @ 29 spm (11 SPI, 10 MPS).

6K first.

Then 30min.

Then 10K.

Then 60min.

These rows would all be pbs.

ranger

Yay! Ranger predicts that he thinks he's ready to do some trials.
Will be do them?
One word answers, starting with the letter 'N' to the usual address...

[ranger]

"All I have to do is row continuously what I now take breaks doing, and the job is done"

Yep.

That's just how intervals work, Chad.

For instance, in 8 x 500 (3:30 rest), you do twice the distance, somewhat faster, taking 25 minutes rest for 12 minutes of rowing, and not working as hard as you do in a race, either.

And it prepares you very nicely for racing.

What _doesn't_ prepare you for racing is rowing slowly and badly, and not very long, over and over, over and over.

That just trains you to be bad and slow.

ranger

[ausrwr]

So all lots of UT2 does is to teach you how to row slow and badly...
Wrong as usual, Rich.

What it does is... No, stuff if, you're not interested in proven ways of getting better...

Hope the body gets better soon though.