The Two Types of Training

[Nosmo]

You did see those results: 6:41.4

Indeed.

Right around WR pace, six seconds better than anyone else in my age and weight division, even though I am ready to enter the next division.

Thats very interesting I didn't know! Why didn't you tell us before?? (I also just learned John Edwards was the son of a mill worker!)

I don't see any results for you at all.

Did you have some?

You don't include a signature line.

Why not?

Against my better judgement....

I don't care about my erg scores and don't use the erg much. Furthermore I don't feel the need to brag about them.
However we have already established I have a higher power to weight ratio then you. Did you forget that? Weight adjusted my scores aver about what yours are. Your results are only impressive because the lwt erg weight is 165 lbs. If it was 160 your results would be much less impressive. If it was 155 or 150 no one would notice you at all. If it was 180 or 190 you'd be competing against people who are naturally heavier who would suck down and kick your butt.

Since you asked my results: 3 OTW races this year so far--3 gold medals (zero DNS, zero DNFs).
Haven't you learned that every time you get into a pissing match with me you look like an idiot?

[ranger]

Haven't you learned that every time you get into a pissing match with me you look like an idiot?

A match?

I didn't notice there was one.

Non-engagement, more like.

Oh well.

Still no signature line?

Figures.

ranger

[ranger]

Are there any other males here, let's say of any age, devoting so much time while achieving so little in a minority category of the minority sport of indoor rowing

Clearly not.

This shines a pretty glaring light on the inadequacies of traditional training plans for rowing.

There is overwhelming evidence for this:

Traditional training plans are just race preparation; race preparation doesn't differ much from racing itself; and both, by racing rather than training, just make you worse.

Year after year.

Worse and worse.

Food for thought.

Training has to do with overcoming your weaknesses, something that traditional training plans don't even mention.

After a very short period, you don't get better unless you overcome your weaknesses.

If you just parade your strengths, trying to go faster and faster, however you can, you just get worse.

ranger

[snowleopard]

Year after year.

Worse and worse.

Food for thought.

Nice to hear you talking about yourself.

[JohnBove]

My lwt pb is 6:28.

Roy's lwt pb is 6:38.

You who scrounge out any age difference that plays in your favor ("I'm 59 years and four months") offer this up? Your only relevant time is what you've pulled 55-60. Roy has the world record; you can't get under 6:40.

Over the last few years, I have taken out some time to learn how to row, so I haven't been training to race.

Byron has taken the time to gather the quotes that show this is a bald lie or, rather, that this is the truth and that you've lied and lied repeatedly previously. It hardly matters given that you lie so freely and guiltlessly.

The investment is already paying off, even though I am only half trained.

Now this is a truly wondrous statement. When did your "training" begin? 2003? That would mean you're going to deliver seven years from now. Or maybe it was 2008, certainly no later than that. So you'll have nothing to show until 2012. How can you not realize what a laughingstock you are?

When I am fully trained, the investment will pay off in spades, perhaps as much as 30 seconds over 2K, vis-a-vis my competition (and/or what I might be rowing now if I had not learned how to row).

Your "training" is going to get you to (let's see, 41-30) 6:11? This when you're 66 and finally "fully trained"?

Do you share these fantasies with your family? I'm sure you don't, you sorry, sorry man.

[becz]

Are there any other males here on this forum, let's say under 80 years old, who are pullling WR pace for their age and weight, much less without even preparing for it?

Any at all?

If not, I don't see how my training could be going any better, at least in relative terms.

It is already the best.

ranger

It's impossible to tell what of your own BS you really believe, but let me throw this out there.

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason you were able to break the WR in 2003 (which I feel the need to point out you no longer own) is that you have a natural pre-disposition for good performance on the erg? You're the classic example of an individual who takes his personal experience and extrapolates it out to everyone else. "I broke the 2k record, and even though I've not come close to my peak performance again, you all should do like I do." If your training was truly perfect, you'd have improved on your 2003 performance by now (by improved I mean 2k time, not SPI or whatever other meaningless metric you use). This should particularly be the case given the amount of time you claim to train (whether or not you're "sharpened"). I'm sure that if you trained under a proper coach, you'd have been able to either maintain or improve on that performance. But because you're either too stupid or too egotistical (or both) to admit the realities of your situation, you've never been able to regain the performance you had. The really sad thing here is the wasted opportunity. You truly could have remained the best, but got in your own way. I feel more pity for you than anything else. So instead, you're now hoping to just hang in there long enough to turn 60 and start this whole stupid process all over again. "When I broke the 60's lightweight world record in 201X, I wasn't even fully trained". How sad for you, and in some ways sad for the rest of us.

Here lies ranger's 7 years of futile effort. RIP.

[Carl Watts]

Yep looks like its pretty much over for this thread.

Time has run out now to post that series of PB's. Just not enough rest time left.

I guess it's still possible to post the best of the "Training Rows" like I have just done with my 60min? Not that impressive but hey, It was my first and only 60min so it's going to be easy to beat next season!

Training and goals for next season is for a Sub 7 2K and an 8000m in the 30min. Still my ultimate goal is to row the 10K at 1:50.0 ave/500m pace, I think it should be possible.

Clean slate coming soon for the Sig's, but I guess some are already pretty clean !

[ranger]

even though I've not come close to my peak performance again

You have this just backward.

Among 2K WR-holders, 40-70, Paul Hendershott and I are the only rowers in the history of the sport to get better.

Give or take a bit, I have repeated my peak performance over and over:

6:27.5, 6:28, 6:28.5, 6:29, 6:29.7, 6:30, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:33, etc.

The plateauing of these times, though, indicated that I really couldn't improve by continuing to parade my strengths.

I needed to work on my weaknesses.

So that's what I have done.

Now, when I am fully trained, I think I'll do quite a bit better than these 6:28 - 6:32 efforts.

ranger

[ranger]

If your training was truly perfect, you'd have improved on your 2003 performance by now

Nothing whatsoever in the history of the sport supports this.

If I improve my 2003 times, it will be unprecedented.

For example, if I now pull even 6:24, I will break the 60s lightweight WR by 18 seconds, break the 50s lwt WR when I am 60, and outrow the 2010 60s lwt hammer (7:03.6) by 40 seconds, ten seconds per 500m.

ranger

[ranger]

It's impossible to tell what of your own BS you really believe, but let me throw this out there.

Why do you claim that what I say about what I am doing is BS? I don't see any justification for this at all. Could you explain?

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason you were able to break the WR in 2003 (which I feel the need to point out you no longer own) is that you have a natural pre-disposition for good performance on the erg?

Sure, I have some talent for rowing; I have a long history of participation in sports; and I got up to doing 6 hours of exercise a day when I was training to break the WR (an hour of jumping rope, an hour of sit ups, two hours on the erg, and two hours on a stepper). All of these contributed to my success, but I don't think that one was more influential than the other. To break a world record in anything, you need a good balance of talent, dedication, and hard work.

You're the classic example of an individual who takes his personal experience and extrapolates it out to everyone else. "I broke the 2k record, and even though I've not come close to my peak performance again, you all should do like I do." If your training was truly perfect, you'd have improved on your 2003 performance by now (by improved I mean 2k time, not SPI or whatever other meaningless metric you use). This should particularly be the case given the amount of time you claim to train (whether or not you're "sharpened").

I answered this in a previous post, but let me add: I still think I will indeed improve my 2K times from 2003.

I'm sure that if you trained under a proper coach, you'd have been able to either maintain or improve on that performance. But because you're either too stupid or too egotistical (or both) to admit the realities of your situation, you've never been able to regain the performance you had. The really sad thing here is the wasted opportunity. You truly could have remained the best, but got in your own way.

I am not the best? On what grounds do you say that? Without even preparing for racing, I have had the best 2K times in the 55s lwts for the last two years, this year by six seconds, even though I am 59. No one my age and weight (or older) came within 20 seconds of pulling 6:41. On the other hand, coaches such as Paul Smith, who worked with Rocket Roy, didn't improve his times a whit. Before Paul started working with Roy, Roy pulled 6:38. After Paul worked with Roy, Roy pulled 6:38, and only once. Most of the time he pulled 6:42 or slower. Now, Roy will have a hard time pulling 6:50. I don't find coaching of this sort any better than my own. In fact, I find it much worse.

I feel more pity for you than anything else. So instead, you're now hoping to just hang in there long enough to turn 60 and start this whole stupid process all over again. "When I broke the 60's lightweight world record in 201X, I wasn't even fully trained". How sad for you, and in some ways sad for the rest of us.

I appreciate your concern, but no, I won't wait until I am 60 to race again. I will be fully trained soon. That should get me 10-20 seconds over 2K, relative to what I can do for 2K when I have not prepared to race. This fall, I will go to BIRC and blow Roy's 55s lwt WR completely away, perhaps by as much as 20 seconds. Then I will continue to train through to WIRC and see if I can get my best performance when I am 60.

Here lies ranger's 7 years of futile effort. RIP.

I don't think being twenty seconds better than anyone else my age and weight, without even preparing for it, is a futile effort. But think what you want, I guess. When I am fully trained, I may well pull a 2K that is 40 seconds better than anyone else my age and weight. I will be satisfied with that, wouldn't you?

ranger

[lancs]

If..

In the continued absence of any kind of evidence (any) to back up your claims, now seems an appropriate time to leave you and your 'ifs' alone on this thread. Had you been able to post a reasonable lwt hour (as a hwt of course) then this may have reclaimed a crumb of credibility. But you haven't. Again.

Should you ever manage any kind of time (without breaks) that indicates even the potential for a sub-6:30 time again then do please let me know..

[ranger]

If..

In the continued absence of any kind of evidence (any) to back up your claims, now seems an appropriate time to leave you and your 'ifs' alone on this thread. Had you been able to post a reasonable lwt hour (as a hwt of course) then this may have reclaimed a crumb of credibility. But you haven't. Again.

Should you ever manage any kind of time (without breaks) that indicates even the potential for a sub-6:30 time again then do please let me know..

No need to wait.

Evidence is already produced,, Lancs.

2K in 6:29.7, 1Kr24 @ 1:38, 500r30 @ 1:30.

Can't get much more convincing that that.

That was when I was only half trained, though, just on the basis of foundational rowing, without distance rowing or sharpening.

When I am fully trained, I'll pull 6:16, not 6:29.

ranger

[ranger]

Yea.

The secret to good distance rowing is getting comfortable rating 30-32 spm, as I am now.

At low drag, the rate naturally floats upward. Both drives and recoveries are quicker.

Great stuff.

I am now locked on my distance targets.

Just a matter of time now until I achieve them.

I'm just putting in the work.

Day after day.

123 df.

ranger

[hjs]

I am not the best? On what grounds do you say that? Without even preparing for racing, I have had the best 2K times in the 55s lwts for the last two years, this year by six seconds, even though I am 59. No one my age and weight (or older) came within 20 seconds of pulling 6:41. On the other hand, coaches such as Paul Smith, who worked with Rocket Roy, didn't improve his times a whit. Before Paul started working with Roy, Roy pulled 6:38. After Paul worked with Roy, Roy pulled 6:38, and only once. Most of the time he pulled 6:42 or slower. Now, Roy will have a hard time pulling 6:50. I don't find coaching of this sort any better than my own. In fact, I find it much worse.

ranger

Again a Lie

Roy pulled a 6.34, you know that Dangy, if needed both he and Paul can show that result.

[ranger]

I am not the best? On what grounds do you say that? Without even preparing for racing, I have had the best 2K times in the 55s lwts for the last two years, this year by six seconds, even though I am 59. No one my age and weight (or older) came within 20 seconds of pulling 6:41. On the other hand, coaches such as Paul Smith, who worked with Rocket Roy, didn't improve his times a whit. Before Paul started working with Roy, Roy pulled 6:38. After Paul worked with Roy, Roy pulled 6:38, and only once. Most of the time he pulled 6:42 or slower. Now, Roy will have a hard time pulling 6:50. I don't find coaching of this sort any better than my own. In fact, I find it much worse.

ranger

Again a Lie

Roy pulled a 6.34, you know that Dangy, if needed both he and Paul can show that result.

Not in competition, where a "weight-cutter" lightweight such as Roy must submit to externally imposed schedules for weigh-ins, race times, and so forth.

If Roy could really row 6:34, he should have done it in competition, repeatedly, as I did with my sub-6:30 efforts. But he never came close. In fact, besides one 6:38 effort, all of his other rows were 6:42 or slower.

Roy never rowed faster than 6:42 at BIRC, EIRC, or WIRC.

That's pretty puzzling, if he is really capable of 6:34.

An erg race is just a race against the clock.

ranger