The Two Types of Training

[JohnBove]

That's not the present, John.

Oh, but it is. You or anyone can look it up. You rowed 6:41 and change. Explain to me how this failure -- by over three seconds -- to match Roy's record adds up to your being better. ("I'm slower, but I'm better.")

Now, Roy isn't even rowing.

And that's relevant to his time being way better than yours -- how?

If he returns to rowing, which seems pretty doubtful, he will have trouble pulling 6:50.

Yo have no idea what he's capable of, should he return. Particularly you, who can't get out of the 6:40s, but thinks he's going to row 6:16. Or says as much. It's hard to believe even a headcase like you actually believes that.
I

[whp4]

In sports, to be the best in the present and have the most hope for the future is the best of all possible worlds.

Many athletes sell out the future in order to be the best in the present.

Or many athletes sell out the present in order to be the best in the future.

I have done neither.

That's right -- you are not the best in the present, and you will not be the best in the future. Glad to see you accepting that, finally!

[JohnBove]

Folks such as Mike VB and Rocket Roy are not the best in the present and are just getting worse.

Mike trained for and won the CRASHBs. You chose not to compete against him.

No, nor at all.

I qualified for the CRASH-Bs.

I had a ticket in hand, supplied by C2.

I was at the airport in Chicago, trying to get a plane to Boston.

And my plane didn't fly.

It had nothing to do with me.

Because my plane didn't fly, I was put up overnight in Chicago at the expense of the airline. I was given vouchers for dinner and breakfast. And I was given a ticket to Detroit for the next day.

ranger

That's such a sad story. People from Europe managed to get there. MIke drove down, I think, in a snow storm. One would be more inclined to believe you, were you not such a chronic liar and bit-spitter. Unfortunately, you're both.

[mikvan52]

Folks such as Mike VB and Rocket Roy are not the best in the present and are just getting worse.

Enough with everybody posturing!

Everyone well over 55 is getting slower on the erg than what they did at around 50 when fully trained.
Look through the rankings for various people through the years...
(I don't count those who merely log workouts on low amts of training!)

Rich likes to say he wasn't fully trained at 50..(and now he's better) Let's let him say that! None of us believe him.

I don't even want to say: "Rich! Put up or shut up"
I find his "in the fall" is soothing now like the worn out slippers that an old codger wears to get his hot milk before bedtime.
We don't want him to stop his daily posts. We need his constancy. He's like a series of old pirate jokes or "a man walks into a bar...." The appeal is mundane but there's appeal none the less (for us here).

In reality:
Rich's erging career is following a common pattern.

1> Erger is good as a lighter hwt
2> Erger cuts weight and moves higher in standings upon reaching lwt status
3> Erger finds it hard to maintain lwt status
4> Erger gets older and doesn't show at major races anymore because of vanity or ennui or both
5> Erger disappears from rankings because of injury or death

It's only ranger's bragging that sets him apart from common folk...

But who needs reality?
6:41 is reality (dull)
the empty prospect of 6:28 (interesting)

[rjw]

I think that is just the point. Your training is a series of ideas that would be hard if not impossible to replicate.

No, doing free fartlek intervals is just a mode of training.

Agreed, but they are hard to replicate and/or report on by there very nature. Also, you make them sound as if they are unique or there is some magic with them. Not so. I also have done them and still incorporate them in my training regime but they are hard to replicate from week to week.

[ranger]

I think that is just the point. Your training is a series of ideas that would be hard if not impossible to replicate.

No, doing free fartlek intervals is just a mode of training.

Agreed, but they are hard to replicate and/or report on by there very nature. Also, you make them sound as if they are unique or there is some magic with them. Not so. I also have done them and still incorporate them in my training regime but they are hard to replicate from week to week.

No, I have said just the opposite, but have only gotten howls of derision from the forum for claiming so.

It is entirely evident what a free fartlek workout is.

And, sure, lots of people do them.

Exact replication and exact reportage have nothing to do with training.

Exact replication and exact reportage just have to do with socializing about your training, comparing efforts/results.

So does racing your training--trials.

Sure, if you want to socialize rather than train in the best way that you can, then the flexibility, naturalness, and personally tailored contours of free fartlek workouts are not as good as the inflexibility, artificiality, and impersonality of a "set" interval workout or other sort of "set" piece, including trials.

ranger

[ranger]

One would be more inclined to believe you

It's easily checked, John.

Just making up a story that fits your purposes (ill will? nay-saying?) and then dismissing the truth as a lie is not a very respectable or productive way to go about a conversation.

ranger

[ranger]

[removed]

ranger

[ranger]

You rowed 6:41 and change. Explain to me how this failure -- by over three seconds -- to match Roy's record adds up to your being better.

Better than Roy?

For the last two years, I have had the best 2K in the 55s lwts, not Roy.

My lwt pb is 6:28.

Roy's lwt pb is 6:38.

Roy has rowed under 6:42 once.

I have rowed 6:30 or under six times: 6:27.5, 6:28, 6:28.5, 6:29, 6:29.7, 6:30.

I have rowed under 6:40 a dozen times.

Over the last few years, I have taken out some time to learn how to row, so I haven't been training to race.

The investment is already paying off, even though I am only half trained.

When I am fully trained, the investment will pay off in spades, perhaps as much as 30 seconds over 2K, vis-a-vis my competition (and/or what I might be rowing now if I had not learned how to row).

ranger

[ranger]

Everyone well over 55 is getting slower on the erg than what they did at around 50 when fully trained.

Well, _almost_ everyone.

When I am fully trained, I think I will be faster at 60 than I was when I was 50, quite a bit faster.

The improvement is not in fitness.

The improvement is technical.

When I was 50, I didn't know how to row.

I now do.

Rowing is significantly technical.

If you want to be fast, it helps a lot if you know how to row.

So I took the time to learn.

ranger

[ranger]

In reality:
Rich's erging career is following a common pattern.

1> Erger is good as a lighter hwt
2> Erger cuts weight and moves higher in standings upon reaching lwt status
3> Erger finds it hard to maintain lwt status
4> Erger gets older and doesn't show at major races anymore because of vanity or ennui or both

Make up whatever story that fits your ego, Mike.

But in reality, i have just been learning to row, changing my technique.

This investment is already paying off.

It will pay off in spades when I am fully trained.

Learning to row has also let me make a smooth transition to rowing OTW.

See you there!

I suspect I'll be rowing, both OTW and on the erg, for the next 30 years.

Can't wait for my Fluidesign to arrive!

Should be here in a couple of weeks.

The weather is now beautiful for rowing, and the Huron River is clear, high, and wide.

Great conditions.

ranger

[ranger]

I now have a hugely relaxed, natural distance stroke at 30-32 spm, so my distance rowing is reaching a satisfying plateau.

No need to raise the rate higher than 32 spm.

That's perfect.

If you rate 32 spm, even at 10 SPI, you go 1:43 (320 watts).

1:43 is Mike VB's 2K race pace.

So this is great distance rowing.

Now, like Mike C., I now just need to keep stretching out continuous rows at 30-32 spm until I get to 30K.

Level 3

UT1

A UT1 pace of 1:43 predicts a 6:16 2K.

So my distance rowing for the next year is set.

Just put it on 30-32 spm and row.

If I want to go faster, I just pull harder.

If I want a rest, I just pull more easily.

But I keep the rate steady.

Low drag (123 df.) is the key to this advance.

If you are rowing well, at low drag, you can get great length and speed with your legs.

The drive becomes quicker, and in sync with it, the recovery of your back and arms.

All of this lifts the rate, easily and naturally.

At low drag like this, 32 spm doesn't feel fast at all.

Just paddling along.

ranger

[Steve G]

Please don't bait Ranger Folks!
He has promised to "race" all ranking distances this season, he has 3 days left, all this typing he has to do is stopping him achieve those aims
Or did he mean next season, the fall, when my stroke is fixed, etc blah blah
Steve

[ranger]

Can Mike VB still pull 16K for 60min?

His most recent 2K, 1:42.5/6:50 would indicate that he can't.

No 60s lwt has ever pulled 16K/1:52 for 60min.

ranger

[hjs]

Please don't bait Ranger Folks!
He has promised to "race" all ranking distances this season, he has 3 days left, all this typing he has to do is stopping him achieve those aims
Or did he mean next season, the fall, when my stroke is fixed, etc blah blah
Steve

He really has them eh, he really is the Wr in this.

I will = keep coming back
If = Something I never could, never will do and certainly can,t do now.
Not fully trained = I am not superman yet.