The Two Types of Training

[whp4]

This is what I want to say.

You can only punish yourself so long for no results (or negative results) before you call it quits, before you decide it isn't worth it.

And yet you continue, 7 years later...

[whp4]

Lance doing weights.............

If Lance wants to build more full-body strength, its would be quicker (and more fun) just to row.

Weights are unnatural.

A big waste of time.

It's possible, just possible, that Lance has a better idea of what he should be doing than you do. Your track record at anything you think you are good at doesn't compare with his.

[Aniyunwaya]

Actually i am not new here have been lurking since 2007
I like Ranger's idea of low rate high power .
Xeno prescribes 2min x10 at 200 df 18 spm a great power builder

[aharmer]

15 x 2K @ 1:44 (1 minute rest).

I don't dispute this is a great workout. I dispute the idea that you can do it. A solid interval workout like this is not the same as RWB haphazardly. Prove me wrong. Set your monitor up for a 2k interval workout with 1 minute rest. Knock them off at 1:44 and see how many you can do. Post a screenshot of the workout. Simple. This isn't racing, you just said it's a workout typical of what you do every day. Post it. We'll all be proven wrong. The only thing we wont have is HR data because your monitor 'broke' on the eve of when you were supposed to start doing distance trials with HR data. Convenient. I don't suppose you own a roll of duct tape that could hold the monitor together?

As I remember, Mike C. likes to do 10 x 1500m (1 minute rest) for a UT1/Level 3 workout.

2K seems to be a rounder (and more interesting) number of meters for the intervals.

Sure, I agree.

If I can't do 15 x 2K @ 1:44 (1 minute rest), I can't do 60min @ 1:44.

Your challenge is a good one.

I'll see what I can do.

I would rate 28 spm.

As I mentioned before, interestingly, for a 60s lwt, each of these 2K intervals would best the 60s lwt American record for 2K, which is 6:56.6.

ranger

And as soon as you do the first interval as a lwt 60 year old, you'll have the American record. Nobody disputes any of the ifs and hypotheticals you post. Only one problem...the ifs and hypotheticals never become fact. If you knock out a workout like this and post a verifiable screenshot, all of a sudden you have an entire forum of people that are interested in your upcoming world records instead of being interested in mocking and ridiculing you. I would be thrilled to see somebody crush their respective weight and age class records...but we're not seeing any proof that you're even in the ballpark. Saying it over and over (and over and over and over) doesn't make it reality. Let's see it. I'm such a fool for falling into this trap:)

[Carl Watts]

Actually i am not new here have been lurking since 2007
I like Ranger's idea of low rate high power .
Xeno prescribes 2min x10 at 200 df 18 spm a great power builder

Actually you can still do this without increasing your drag. Just did my first 60 minute yesterday as the first part of the Bristol to Haiti row online with RowPro and tried various sections at ratings down at 14-15 SPM while maintaining the same pace. pretty slow 2:08 (as three of us were rowing and staying together) and watching the HR. Interestingly the low rating increased the HR compared to 18-19 SPM where my HR was 135 on a 145 DF.

[jliddil]

For the new-bees here:

This is the time of year we veterans start to come to terms with **no ranger posted results**until winter rolls around again.

Next up: "in the fall" (a delaying tactic to secure readership)
Then: "I will go to BIRC"... then he doesn't
Then: "6:28 by the end of September"... (no 6:28)
December is traditionally "stepper month"

Oh, well.
"good competition for paint drying"

I was hoping for a post from ranger today that suspends distance trials again...
It will come late next week.
Ranger's not at weight when he wakes up in the morning these days anyway. Heaven help him when he posts as a hwt!

And for the ensuing blather from him we all might want to order a set of these:

[ranger]

Lance doing weights.............

If Lance wants to build more full-body strength, its would be quicker (and more fun) just to row.

Weights are unnatural.

A big waste of time.

It's possible, just possible, that Lance has a better idea of what he should be doing than you do. Your track record at anything you think you are good at doesn't compare with his.

My guess is that Lance just doesn't know how to row--and that explains it.

ranger

[ranger]

Only one problem...the ifs and hypotheticals never become fact

Over the last two years, in my 2K races, I have been rowing at WR pace without preparing for it.

That's a nice factual check on where I am, I think, given that I am just approaching distance trials.

This year, the 6:41 2K I pulled in competition (without even preparing for it) was six seconds faster than any other 55s lwt, nine seconds faster than Mike VB pulled to win the 55s lwt hammer the WIRC 2010, even though I am 59.

I will be 60 for WIRC 2011 in nine months.

6:41 is 15 seconds faster than the 60s lwt American record.

So, factually, there has certainly never been anything like it in the US--by a country mile.

Distance trials, which I am getting ready for now, will also be a nice check on where I am in my training with respect to 2K.

During/after distance trials, I think I will find that AT, pre-sharpening 6:30 2K that I have been looking for.

That will be the _best_ check on the progress I am making with my training.

I need to have 6:30 be relatively routine as a 2K interval.

Then I can start hard sharpening.

During hard sharpening, I need to do 4 x 2K @ 1:38 as a standard AT workout.

The 1:45 @ 27 spm that I have been doing lately, I suspect, is the "base pace" I have been searching for as a standard pace and rate for everyday rowing.

I need to be able to do 17+K for 60min on a daily basis, just as a distance foundation for my faster rowing.

If I can do this, it will be about seven seconds per 500m faster than I used to do for relaxed 60min rows back in 2003.

Back then, when I wasn't racing, I did most of my 60min rows at about 1:52/16K.

I like the 60min row as a break-and-butter workout, the thing I do the most, the thing that sets the foundational for everything else.

27 spm seems ideal for "base pace" rowing of this sort.

So I am delighted with this development.

Only a few 60s lwts have ever rowed 1:45/7:00 for 2K.

No 60s lwt rowed 7:00/1:45 for 2K this year.

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Ages 60-69 | Current 2010 Season

1 Hugh Pite 65 Sidney BC CAN 7:02.7 RACE
2 Robert Lakin 61 Wichita KS USA 7:03.6 RACE
3 gregory brock 62 santa cruz ca USA 7:03.9 IND
4 Jerry Lawson 62 USA 7:06.0 RACE
4 Gerald Lawson 62 Winona MN USA 7:06.0 IND
6 Leif Petersen 64 DEN 7:08.5 RACE
7 Peter Francis 61 Denver CO USA 7:09.3 RACE
8 Roger Prowse 65 GBR 7:10.3 RACE
9 Rick Bayko 62 Newburyport MA USA 7:12.5 RACE

60min is done at 2K + 10.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

Do you do any sustained "threshold" rowing of any sort?

You know, 60min at your anaerobic threshold, top-end UT1?

A balanced training program would do this sort of rowing at least a couple of times a week.

When I _really_ have it going, I like to do this kind of rowing every day, even twice a day.

If you _don't_ do this knd of rowing, why not?

IMHO, it is the bread-and-butter of all training for rowing.

It is best to do this rowing at 10 MPS, that is, keeping the rate up, 28-32 spm.

When you say "steady state" rowing, do you ever mean "steady state" at your anaerobic threshold?

Or do you just mean "rest day," easy rowing, UT2, or even easier, just paddling, etc.?

ranger

[ranger]

Your 2K is only as good as you 60min trial at 10 MPS.

60min is done at 2K + 10.

If you want to "get busy" as a rower, do a lot of "threshold" rowing.

Hard 60min rows at 10 MPS.

Top-end UT1.

Top-end UT1 for a 6:16 2K is 1:44.

No 60s lightweight has ever rowed 60min @ 1:52 (16K).

ranger

[ranger]

In a couple of years, when he is 60 years old, MIke VB might have trouble doing 60min @ 1:52 (16K).

He _might_ be able do it.

Then again, he might not.

It will be a close call.

60min @ 1:52 would predict a 1:42/6:48 2K.

This year, at 57 years old, Mike won the 55s lwt hammer at WIRC 2010 with a 6:50 2K.

ranger

[lancs]

Only one problem...the ifs and hypotheticals never become fact

Blah, if, blah, if, blah..

Most amusing that you answer an accusation of unsubstantiated ifs and hypotheticals with another load of unsubstantiated ifs and hypotheticals..

[hjs]

Lance doing weights.............

If Lance wants to build more full-body strength, its would be quicker (and more fun) just to row.

Weights are unnatural.

A big waste of time.

ranger

Sure he won 6 TDF so he must be doing everything wrong...................... this coming from the man who is not "ready" after 7 years

[hjs]

Actually i am not new here have been lurking since 2007
I like Ranger's idea of low rate high power .
Xeno prescribes 2min x10 at 200 df 18 spm a great power builder

Do you also like the way he failes at every goal he sets himself ?

[ranger]

Only one problem...the ifs and hypotheticals never become fact

Blah, if, blah, if, blah..

Most amusing that you answer an accusation of unsubstantiated ifs and hypotheticals with another load of unsubstantiated ifs and hypotheticals..

There is nothing hypothetical at all about my training--or racing.

Sure planning, scheduling, goals, etc., are hypothetical.

Inherently so.

But that's just talk.

ranger