The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

Effective rowing for a heavyweight is 16 SPI.

Effective rowing for a lightweight is 13 SPI.

ranger

[ranger]

Efficient rowing is 10 MPS @ 28-32 spm over long distances (e.g., an hour, a HM, even a FM).

The FM is the exception, I suppose, because of its enormous length, but outside of this one exception, this distance rowing, which focusses on efficiency, should be done just below your anaerobic threshold.

ranger

[lancs]

I am showing you.

ranger

This is one of the more ironic lines you've posted, which is saying something.

All you are showing us is a 6:41 2k and a few DNFs..

[ranger]

Wow.

At this low drag (123 df.) I am getting a gorgeous FM stroke now, 1:45 @ 27 spm.

The secret is length with the legs and the low drag, which naturally speeds up the drive, in response, the recovery, and therefore, overall, the rate.

I don't have my HR monitor at the moment (the clasp holding it together broke), but my HR couldn't be anything above 155 bpm when I am doing this 1:45 @ 27 spm.

If so, I can do it for a FM.

_Very_ easy skeletal-muscularly, too, because of the low drag.

Astonishing.

This is 10 seconds per 500m faster than I used to be at a similar rate, distance, and HR.

Efficiency!

Efficiency!

ranger

[ranger]

I am showing you.

ranger

This is one of the more ironic lines you've posted, which is saying something.

All you are showing us is a 6:41 2k and a few DNFs..

How to train for a lwt 6:16 2K at 60, dufus.

Not how to race at world record pace when you are unprepared (i.e., without hard distance rowing or sharpening, just on the basis of foundational training).

That's just for fun.

ranger

[mikvan52]

If you are going to pull 10 SPI, I think it matters quite a bit whether you do your steady state rowing 2:06 @ 16 spm or 1:43 @ 32 spm.

The latter is twice as fast.

Classic!

2:06 = 186 seconds
1:43 = 103 seconds

186/103 = ____ ?
(not 2!)

I surmise that your definition of speed in rowing is the rate at which one dips his blade in the water...

BTW, Rich:
Are you going to attempt any non RWB distance rows before the end of the month?
Hope to see a reply here. I'm off to watch Harvard lights beat Navy early this morning.

(My 1st cousin's son strokes the Crimson's varsity)
When they go by at a 40 I'll be sure to shout out to remind them that they're going twice as fast as they'd being going if there rate was only a 20.

SATURDAY, APRIL 24, 2010
Navy vs. Harvard
5:45 a.m. - Coxswains Meeting
6:30 a.m. - Launch
7:15 a.m. - Racing begins and runs on 20' centers
Schedule:
7:15 a.m. - First Varsity (Haines Trophy)

[PaulH]

Carl--

The best training goes this way (and in this order):

(1) Learn to row effectively (Foundational training at low rates, 16-26 spm, and high stroking powers).

(2) Learn to row efficiently (Distance training at moderate rates, 27-32 spm, and low stroking powers).

(3) Row fast (Sharpening at high rates, 33-40 spm, and moderate stroking powers).

(4) Race.

ranger

From memory you've claimed that nobody has trained this way before. Furthermore, you've not yet completed the cycle yourself. Hence, nobody has ever trained this way to completion. On what grounds, therefore, do you claim that this is the 'best' training?

btw - Really looking forward to your first result, but I'm starting to get worried that you won't do what you said you would. Up and at 'em!

[ranger]

Mike VB can also row 1:45 @ 27 spm, too--easily.

It's just a little over 11 SPI.

If we row the same paces and rates at the same HRs, as we seem to do, the only difference between us on the erg, then, is aerobic capacity.

While 155 bpm is just low to middlin' UT1 for me, 155 bpm for Mike is 95% HR, AN.

So, 1:45 is pretty much it for Mike.

He can do it for 2K, but it gets tough going after that.

For Mike to do 2 x 2K @ 1:45 (7 minutes rest) is a tough workout.

But this is entirely understandable.

If Eskild E. had a maxHR of 163 bpm, he couldn't do much better than 7:00/1:45 for 2K, either.

As a rower, he would be effective and efficient--but crippled.

Over the last 15 years, I assume that Eskild hasn't lost _any_ of his effectiveness and efficiency, but he has lost 15 seconds over 2K.

Age takes its toll!



ranger

[ranger]

From memory you've claimed that nobody has trained this way before. Furthermore, you've not yet completed the cycle yourself. Hence, nobody has ever trained this way to completion. On what grounds, therefore, do you claim that this is the 'best' training?

No, I don't claim that no one has ever trained this way before.

I just claim that those who hang around this forum don't train this way.

By and large, the people in and around this forum train to race by racing their training.

The focus of their training is doing timed "pieces" pretty much as hard as they can in order to try to better their pbs and post their results to the rankings (or to the CTC, or to this forum, or to ...).

As the forum as a whole here has made abundantly clear in response to _my_ training, those who don't train by doing timed "pieces" do (what the forum considers to be) nothing at all.

If you are not racing, you are not training.

The problem is:

Racing your training is upside down training.

You just try to go fast, in most cases, as fast as you can--_before_ you learn how to be effective and efficient.

I guess the assumption is that, if you keep bustin' a gut and rowing fast, effectiveness and efficiency will just take care of themselves.

ranger

[aharmer]

Gentlemen,

The distance trial attempts are taking place, we simply will not see any results posted because the results are not there. Hell, he attempts distance trials every day, then after 8 minutes at his supposed 60 minute pace he handles down out of sheer fatigue. Then he picks it up and does another few minutes. This silly game continues for an hour or two and he claims to have erged 2 hours at 1:44 with no problems.

I'm long past expecting any results from The Fraud, but still love reading the soap opera to see how many times he gets response from posting the same fiction. For some reason he takes pleasure in this, and we're making his life wonderful. I'd request that we all boycott the thread until verifiable results are posted but what fun would that be:) It's far more interesting to see ranger all liquored up posting 10 times in a row in the middle of the night.

[ranger]

Gentlemen,

The distance trial attempts are taking place, we simply will not see any results posted because the results are not there. Hell, he attempts distance trials every day, then after 8 minutes at his supposed 60 minute pace he handles down out of sheer fatigue. Then he picks it up and does another few minutes. This silly game continues for an hour or two and he claims to have erged 2 hours at 1:44 with no problems.

I'm long past expecting any results from The Fraud, but still love reading the soap opera to see how many times he gets response from posting the same fiction. For some reason he takes pleasure in this, and we're making his life wonderful. I'd request that we all boycott the thread until verifiable results are posted but what fun would that be:) It's far more interesting to see ranger all liquored up posting 10 times in a row in the middle of the night.

It is interesting listening to someone interpret and evaluate information based on their own perspective.

Yes, given how you row and live, given you interpretive context, I suspect this is just what you imagine.

C'est dommage.

ranger

[macroth]

It seems odd to say so, but the most important thing that I will do every day for the next year or so is a couple of hours on my bike, in addition to my rowing on the erg and OTW.

This cross-training will keep my body fat below 10% and therefore my weight at or below 165 lbs., ready to compete as a lightweight.

Next year, I will have to do nothing to manage my weight other than maintain my cross-training routines.

I have no weight to lose.

ranger

Either your diet is disastrous, or you're light-years away from being a natural lightweight. Nobody needs 2 hours of crosstraining a day to maintain their weight when they're doing 2+ hours of erging/rowing already. Not to mention the fact that it will be greatly counterproductive during your eventual sharpening. Your rowing training should be more than enough to manage your weight. This will continue to be a serious obstacle to you achieving your best performance.

[ranger]

after 8 minutes at his supposed 60 minute pace he handles down out of sheer fatigue. Then he picks it up and does another few minutes. This silly game continues for an hour or two and he claims to have erged 2 hours at 1:44 with no problems.

"Silly game"?

Hardly.

Have you ever trained for rowing?

If rests are short (e.g., a minute or so), what you describe here is something like 15 x 2K @ 1:44 (1 minute rest).

_Great_ training.

A standard Level 3 workout for MIke C.

UT1

_Exactly_ what you might want to do to train for a 60min row at 1:44 and your anaerobic threshold.

The substantial intervals habituate you to the pace, rate, and heart rate.

Mike VB or Rocket Roy could do one of these and then they would be through. Their HRs would run close to max.

To do a workout like this comfortably, you would want a HR that is at most high-end UT1 at the end of each interval.

As in any interval workout, the many reps build endurance, relaxation, mechanical and physiological efficiency, aerobic capacity, etc.

ranger

[ranger]

Either your diet is disastrous, or you're light-years away from being a natural lightweight. Nobody needs 2 hours of crosstraining a day to maintain their weight when they're doing 2+ hours of erging/rowing already. Not to mention the fact that it will be greatly counterproductive during your eventual sharpening. Your rowing training should be more than enough to manage your weight. This will continue to be a serious obstacle to you achieving your best performance.

Well, I have to be about 10% body fat in order to make weight naturally (without dehydration).

Only 1% of 60-year-old men are 10% body fat.

The standard elite young rower is 9% body fat.

As you get older, it is harder to maintain lean muscle mass.

Perhaps that's why I have to do so much work to stay below 10% body fat.

On the other hand, you are wrong that this extensive cross-training interferes with my sharpening.

Been there, done that.

Over and over.

No problem.

ranger

[aharmer]

15 x 2K @ 1:44 (1 minute rest).

I don't dispute this is a great workout. I dispute the idea that you can do it. A solid interval workout like this is not the same as RWB haphazardly. Prove me wrong. Set your monitor up for a 2k interval workout with 1 minute rest. Knock them off at 1:44 and see how many you can do. Post a screenshot of the workout. Simple. This isn't racing, you just said it's a workout typical of what you do every day. Post it. We'll all be proven wrong. The only thing we wont have is HR data because your monitor 'broke' on the eve of when you were supposed to start doing distance trials with HR data. Convenient. I don't suppose you own a roll of duct tape that could hold the monitor together?