The Two Types of Training

[jliddil]

VO2 max is a critical element that we've failed to adequately discuss here.

That and many of the other factors. As I've tried to point out if it was black and white then we could figure out who would win gold medals and boot the rest. Sort of the China/Soviet/East German way with roids thrown in for good measure. But I always come back to "training for what"

I have just finished reviewing data for the 50's age groups for the last 15 years at CRASH-B's. Everyone among the winners circle either slows down or stops rowing... This cannot be blamed on their training.... It's VO2 max...

Now you are starting to sound like your bestest friend. Let's see they just quit, they have a life event they lose the drive, they develop poor lifestyle habits etc.

Low rate rowing develops VO2 max to the highest extent for everyone's age. Speedwork gets the most out of it.
Intense sharpening diminishes VO2 max.... and the cycle goes on and on.

Based on what research? I suggest the Lore of Running as a great book to anyone as a easy read on exercise physiology. It is a bit dated but it has some great data comparisons.

I'll have to do some more research article reading and come back to this unless of course mr @sswipe hijacks things.

[jliddil]

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/timecors.htm

I hate using single sources.

But regardless of VO2 max it comes down to how long can can you run up against your VO2 max? 2K is short. And let's be real the erg world is a small data set compared to the OTW rowing world and data set. As many have pointed out you can get away with all kinds of things on a erg that would flip a single OTW boat. Are crash-b ergers in great shape? yes. Again unless you want to be carl lewis or lance what is the big f'ing deal? Oh and we never talk about diet, sleep, relaxation massage etc. Watched the tour de france lately and all the stuff these guys do? When I met Michelle Guerette I got a sense of what a real athlete/nice person is like

BTW I'm hoping ranger gets t-boned in his new boat by an 8.

[Bob S.]

I'll have to do some more research article reading and come back to this unless of course mr @sswipe hijacks things.

Since the person, to whom you are referring, started this thread, I would not consider it to be hijacking. A case could be made for accusing those who post serious training comments on this thread of hijacking.

Bob S.

[ranger]

A case could be made for accusing those who post serious training comments on this thread of hijacking.

Sorry, but that's absurd.

The comments here over the last couple of pages are on training that improves fitness of various sorts.

That's fine for those who need to improve their fitness, but it doesn't apply to me.

The training I have been doing improves my rowing.

I can't improve my fitness.

My fitness has been maximal for close to a decade, that is, over the whole time I have been racing on the erg (since 2001).

Those with _very_ high fitness can have very low effectiveness and efficiency with that fitness when rowing.

The two are not the same at all.

As I have mentioned, I think that rowing well is worth about five seconds per 500m, above and beyond any consideration of your fitness, or if you want it this way, with your fitness the same, whether maximal, moderate, or minimal.

Erg races, and rowing races OTW, are usually won by a couple of seconds, if that, which is only .5 seconds per 500, so this part of rowing that can be attributed to rowing per se is pretty significant, no?

In any erg race, twenty seconds will usually account for the first twenty finishers (or so).

2010 C.R.A.S.H.-B. Sprints World Indoor Rowing Championships

Event: Open Men

1 Grohmann Tim Concept2 Team Germany 05:48.7 U23
2 Raja Allar Estonian RA 05:50.6
3 Bertoldo Brad Northeastern University 05:57.1 College
4 Miller Matthew University of Virginia 05:57.7 U23-C
5 Fleming Alexander Unaffiliated 05:58.4 U23-C
5 Morgan Scott Unaffiliated 05:58.4 College
7 Taimsoo Kaspar Estonian RA 06:01.1
8 Trimble Jack Unaffiliated 06:03.7 U23-C
9 Bonner Cole Unaffiliated 06:04.4 U23-C
9 Goodman Lucas MIT Crew 06:04.4 U23-C
11 Johnson Derek Yale University 06:05.0 U23-C
12 Dethlefs Tom Yale University 06:05.7 U23-C
13 Mylrea Brent Unaffiliated 06:06.0 U23-C
14 Orthwein Lukens Harvard University 06:06.8 U23-C
15 Nolan Brendan Unaffiliated 06:07.7 U23-C
16 Pietrzak Amadeusz V-Sculls 06:08.3 U23
17 Crynes Christian Unaffiliated 06:08.4 College

For racing OTW, rowing well is worth at least 10 seconds per 500m, perhaps more.

You can use the erg to increase your fitness, as Carl seems to be doing, but it doesn't have much to do with rowing per se.

There are lots of ways to improve your fitness--go for a bike ride, go for a run, go for a swim, jump rope for an hour, do sit ups for an hour, step for an hour, etc.

Gyms these days are full of "exercise equipment" for improving fitness.

None of this exercise equipment has anything much to do with rowing per se.

ranger

[bloomp]

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/timecors.htm

I hate using single sources.

But regardless of VO2 max it comes down to how long can can you run up against your VO2 max? 2K is short. And let's be real the erg world is a small data set compared to the OTW rowing world and data set. As many have pointed out you can get away with all kinds of things on a erg that would flip a single OTW boat. Are crash-b ergers in great shape? yes. Again unless you want to be carl lewis or lance what is the big f'ing deal? Oh and we never talk about diet, sleep, relaxation massage etc. Watched the tour de france lately and all the stuff these guys do? When I met Michelle Guerette I got a sense of what a real athlete/nice person is like

BTW I'm hoping ranger gets t-boned in his new boat by an 8.

Are you asking me to find several other sources that prove my point? VO2 max is a very small part of the equation for elite athletes. If you cannot operate at a lactate threshold that is 85-90% of your VO2 max, you will get curbstomped regardless of your VO2 max. The whole reason that a technical sport like OTW rowing is ruled by those that have rowed for years is because it requires efficiency both in the motion OF rowing to not waste energy and not offset the boat; and efficiency in the cellular sense.

Diet has nothing to do with it (sadly). Look at Phelps. He had to eat ~12000 kCal/day just to maintain weight. He threw junk down his system (I was hearing a whole pizza every day). Sleep, yes sleep is a negative factor for performance but it has no bearing on your VO2 max and lactate threshold. Sleep loss brings in a whole new set of physiological factors that negate any fitness gains. I looked at sleep loss and heat acclimatization in the research I was helping with last semester, and it seemed that the acclimatization worked well to stop the negative effects of sleep loss.

Just to be fair, you brought up a lot of short-term performance inhibitors. I'm thinking about the long term training that makes one an elite athlete.

[ranger]

The focus has been on DPS and lowering the rating while maintaining the same pace. What I should be doing is 20-21 SPM or less for the 10K at 1:54 pace. The idea is that when you then rate back up with the same power per stroke to 23 your pace increases to closer to my 1:50 target. Getting there is just time spent on training and improving my cardio as the power is there, just not he ability for the heart to sustain it for long enough periods.

What is your maxHR?

What is your resting HR?

Sure, the strategy you are using is fine, if you can do the 10K at 22 spm and a top-end UT2 HR (70% HRR) and then come back and do the 10K again at some higher stroke rate and a top-end UT1 HR (90% HRR).

My top-end UT1 HR (my anaerobic threshold) is almost 90% HRR.

So, I can get to 30 spm at my anaerobic threshold.

I pull about 11 SPI in this distance rowing.

So 1:52 @ 22 spm with a HR of 145 bpm becomes 1:42 @ 30 spm with a HR of 172 bpm.

John is right that you are not going to raise the rate, keep the stroking power the same, and row with the same heart rate.

You do the low rate rowing at a lower HR; the high rate rowing at a higher HR.

ranger

[ranger]

that is 85-90% of your VO2 max, you will get curbstomped regardless of your VO2 max. The whole reason that a technical sport like OTW rowing is ruled by those that have rowed for years is because it requires efficiency both in the motion OF rowing to not waste energy and not offset the boat; and efficiency in the cellular sense.

Hear, hear.

Agreed.

Now, as I am approaching 60 years old, I am doing 1:42 @ 30 spm under my anaerobic threshold.

Seven years ago, when I was 53, I could only do 1:48 @ 30 spm under my anaerobic threshold, even though my anaerobic threshold was undoubtedly higher.

The difference is effectiveness and efficiency in rowing, not aerobic capacity.

I used to row like shit.

I now row well.

ranger

[Carl Watts]

Well just had a great evening row starting with a 10K in 38:55 at only 19 SPM followed by about 10 minutes of rest and then a 2K PB of 7:03.6 at only 24 SPM.

Went out way to fast on the 2K at 1:38 and had to back off in the middle before finishing it at 1:45 pace. I need more practice at this distance rowing at 1:45 all the way through.

Yes I row for fitness. Fitness to me means Cardio fitness. At this stage I have no idea where I can get to in terms of my rowing performance as I have not been at what I would call my my peak since age 12 when I could play 4 games of soccer in a row in a knockout tournament. Weights in my opinion do not lead to "fitness" (I did it for years), they build bone density and muscle mass, both help your rowing in terms of power but with no intense sustained cardio as well your going nowhere fast in distance rowing. LP and 100M and maybe 500M sure great but any more on weights alone and your just going to fly then die.

May just sneak in a Sub 7 in this season yet.....

[ranger]

Yes I row for fitness.

Then, I hope you understand the inappropriateness of your comments here with respect to my rowing.

We are in two completely different places, although what I am doing will eventually be important to you, too.

It is worth about five seconds per 500m.

Those your size and age row a minute faster than you do for 2K.

Some of that extra speed is fitness.

Some of it is technical, skeletal-motor, emotional, physiological, and mental efficiency and effectiveness when rowing.

No one rows faster than I do for my age and weight, largely because of my fitness.

Nonetheless, I am trying to get better at rowing per se to see if I can get faster yet.

That is, I am trying to get more technical, skeletal-motor, emotional, physiological, and mental efficiency and effectiveness when rowing.

My fitness is maximal.

Your situation is pretty different.

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Heavyweight | Ages 40-49 | Current 2010 Season

1 Pieter Engelbrecht 40 PHS OT ZAF 5:59.8 RACE
2 Andrew Benko 42 Dubuque IA USA 6:01.4 RACE
3 Piet Engelbrecht 40 Benoni ZAF 6:08.6 IND
4 Rob Craig 41 Team Tom GBR 6:09.2 RACE
5 John Grady 49 bradford woods PA USA 6:12.6 RACE
6 Ron Long 41 Long Beach CA USA 6:14.0 RACE
7 Gregory Le Sage 40 Reston VA USA 6:14.8 RACE
8 Gavin Allinson 40 Sportsnutritionvlog.com GBR 6:15.3 RACE
9 Andrew Sangster 47 Humberside Fire/Mad Team GBR 6:15.7 RACE
10 Kent Pettersson 45 NOR 6:17.6 RACE
11 Richard Blanchard 43 Orpington GBR 6:19.0 RACE
12 Gary Scott 47 Royces Gym GBR 6:19.8 RACE
13 Thomas Axelson 40 Oslo NOR 6:20.0 IND
14 Robert Durham 46 East Lyme CT USA 6:20.5 IND
15 Frank Klawonn 44 Schwedt GER 6:21.0 RACE
16 Erik Pedersen 42 Randers Free Spirits DEN 6:21.2 IND
17 Bjørn Stensheim 43 Oppdal NOR 6:21.4 RowPro
18 Wayne Berger 43 concord MA USA 6:21.8 RACE
19 Jeff Adamcik 40 Midland MI USA 6:22.2 IND
20 David Chmilowskyj 42 Caledon East ON CAN 6:23.7 RACE
21 Michel Pelletier 43 Vancouver BC CAN 6:24.0 IND
22 Steve Turner 45 Norwich GBR 6:24.7 RACE
23 Johannes Marx 47 GER 6:25.2 RACE
24 Neil Ridge 43 Old Wrecks IRC GBR 6:25.3 RACE
24 Gary Scully 47 Crawley GBR 6:25.3 IND
26 Jari Liimatta 46 Pyhäselkä PK GBR 6:25.8 IND
27 Ken Costello 49 Toronto, Ontario CAN 6:26.3 IND
28 Adrian Gray 41 Norwich Norfolk GBR 6:26.4 RACE
28 Warren Matthews 40 Swindon Wiltshire GBR 6:26.4 RACE
30 Charlie Brown 45 Marietta GA USA 6:26.6 IND_V
31 Andrew O'Brien 49 Arlington MA USA 6:26.7 RACE
32 Ross Nathan 48 Troon Scotland GBR 6:26.9 RACE
33 simon croft 44 Harrogate North Yorkshire GBR 6:27.0 IND
34 Rob Perrot 48 Seal Beach CA USA 6:27.4 IND
35 Michael Heaton-Harris 48 Colac VI AUS 6:27.9 RACE
36 Wiecher Dalsem 44 Kampen NLD 6:28.0 IND
37 John Preston 44 Westfield NJ USA 6:28.2 RACE
38 James Fargo 49 Winnetka IL USA 6:28.4 IND
39 GILES CLARKE 45 GBR 6:28.5 RACE
39 Marco Testoni 42 ITA 6:28.5 RACE
41 James Hart 40 Trowbridge, Wiltshire DB Max Tri GBR 6:28.6 IND
42 Wiecher Dalsem 44 Veteranen Nederland FRA 6:28.7 RACE
43 Alistair Treacy 42 GBR 6:28.8 RACE
44 Michael R 48 Chicago IL USA 6:28.9 IND
45 Thomas Phelan 44 CLOVIS CA USA 6:29.0 RACE
46 Pekka Suoknuuti 46 Fitergo C2-Team GBR 6:29.2 IND
47 Henry Strieker 42 Veteranen Nederland NDL 6:29.3 RACE
47 Henry Strieker 42 Amstelveen Forum Flyer. NLD 6:29.3 IND
49 Tom Phelan 45 CA USA 6:29.6 IND
50 Shaun Helme 44 Westoe Rugby Club Tyne and Wear GBR 6:30.2 IND
51 Dafydd Llywelyn 41 Slaughterhouse GBR 6:30.3 RACE
52 Dale Hancox 44 QLD AUS 6:30.8 RACE
53 Paul Wiegard 40 Melbourne AUS 6:31.0 IND
54 Russell Ticehurst 42 London GBR 6:31.2 RACE
55 Andreas van Tonder 47 White River MP ZAF 6:31.4 IND
56 Andy Crook 43 Honiton Sp Ctr GBR 6:32.0 IND
57 Richard Axe 42 AUS 6:32.1 RACE
58 Andrew Hall 42 Bedworth GBR 6:32.3 RACE
58 Lee Winslow 44 Stockport Free Spirits GBR 6:32.3 RACE
60 Jon Burch-Hyson 47 Winchester Free Spirits GBR 6:32.4 RACE
61 Conrad Blind 40 Auckland NZL 6:32.6 IND
62 Thomas Stottlemyer 42 Noank CT USA 6:32.7 IND
63 Marcus Wahlqvist 40 Göteborg SWE 6:32.9 IND
64 Brad Farmer 45 Santa Clara CA USA 6:33.0 IND
64 Simon Hall 44 Newbury GBR 6:33.0 IND
66 Steve Backley 40 Chislehurst Kent GBR 6:33.1 RACE
67 Graham Green 44 Warrington GBR 6:33.2 IND
68 paul kosmas 43 lexington, va age without limits USA 6:33.3 C2Log
69 Malcolm Sebastian 44 shrewsbury GBR 6:33.6 RACE
70 Jules Stevenson 44 GBR 6:33.9 RACE
70 Matt Sargent 40 San Diego CA USA 6:33.9 IND
72 Jeff R Schnelle 47 Monroe WA USA 6:34.0 IND
72 Scott Urbatsch 41 Portland OR USA 6:34.0 IND
74 Stephen Liszewski 41 KAILUA HI USA 6:34.4 IND
75 Horst Broß 45 Wesel GER 6:34.7 IND
76 Tim Pike 45 Mad Team IRC GBR 6:34.8 RACE
77 Seth Handy 42 Providence RI USA 6:34.9 RACE
77 Jussi Koponen 46 Vantaa FIN 6:34.9 IND
79 Giles Clarke 45 Welti Health And Fitness GBR 6:35.0 RACE
80 Karl Borneman 46 Dayton OH USA 6:35.3 IND
81 mark mennin 49 bethlehem ct USA 6:35.6 IND
82 Brian Sørensen 42 Nyborg Fyn DEN 6:35.8 IND
83 Paul Threlfall 44 Slaughter House GBR 6:36.2 RACE
84 Walter MacDonald 44 Shenzhen/Macau Inverness, Scotland GBR 6:36.4 C2Log
85 Weininger Irwin 46 Wrssss.com GBR 6:36.5 RACE
86 Patrick Lardiere 41 Beaumont Av FRA 6:36.6 RACE
87 Julian Stevenson 44 Gosport GBR 6:36.7 IND
88 Johan Eklund 47 Uppsala Postroddare rote 87 RK SWE 6:37.0 IND
88 Will Krause 43 Seattle WA USA 6:37.0 IND
90 Tony McMullen 44 Manchester GBR 6:37.1 IND
91 Fabrice Riffonneau 41 Cslg Beynes FRA 6:37.6 RACE
92 Thierry Louvet 47 FRA 6:38.0 RACE
92 Colin Wilson 40 Dalwhinnie Highlands GBR 6:38.0 IND_V
92 Dean Horder 40 Brisbane QLD AUS 6:38.0 IND
95 Rodolphe Guillard 40 Sevres Vsn FRA 6:38.1 RACE
96 Haico Aaldering 42 QLD AUS 6:38.2 RACE
97 Allan Moore 40 River Horse GBR 6:38.3 RACE
98 Refik Ongun 47 Redondo Beach CA USA 6:38.4 IND
99 Frank Noorlander 47 Veteranen Nederland NDL 6:38.5 RACE
100 Thierry Duhau 45 FRA 6:38.6 RACE
100 Eric Dupont 43 Lagny Sn FRA 6:38.6 RACE
102 Xander Harris 44 Melbourne VIC AUS 6:38.7 IND
102 Jonathan Tyson 48 Halifax NS CAN 6:38.7 IND
104 Gregory Cook 40 Bainbridge Island WA USA 6:38.8 RACE
105 John Dunlap 41 Mansfield MA USA 6:39.0 IND
105 Christer Pantzar 45 Nässjö SWE 6:39.0 IND
107 Nigel Greene 42 Elkins Park PA USA 6:39.1 RACE
107 Thierry Louvet 47 Versailles Cn FRA 6:39.1 RACE
107 Nigel Greene 42 Elkins Park PA USA 6:39.1 IND
107 John Obermeier 49 Simpsonville SC USA 6:39.1 IND
111 Andy Parkes 41 Par GBR 6:39.3 RACE
111 Jan Dekanovsky 41 Kladno CZE 6:39.3 IND
113 Mike Ruplinger 47 Iowa City IA USA 6:39.5 RACE
113 Dan Romand 46 Saratoga NY USA 6:39.5 IND
115 Paul Shaw 46 Halifax NS CAN 6:39.6 IND
116 Edward Salley 48 Andover MA USA 6:39.7 RACE
116 John Wilson 48 Concept2 ng GBR 6:39.7 RACE
118 Clemens Reinke 49 Teaneck NJ USA 6:39.9 IND
118 Peter Robertson 44 Kilconquhar Scotland GBR 6:39.9 IND
120 Derek Thomas 47 52 Club GBR 6:40.1 RACE
121 Ross George 49 AUS 6:40.3 RACE
122 Thomas Barembruch 42 Alfeld(Leine) NS GER 6:40.9 RowPro
122 Gernot Roedder 44 GER 6:40.9 IND
124 Ralph Stedman 48 Springfield NH USA 6:41.0 RACE
124 Steve Halls 49 Stoke on Trent Steve Halls Fitness GBR 6:41.0 IND
124 Mark Keown 48 Auckland Age Without Limits NZL 6:41.0 IND
127 Paul Johnson 40 GBR 6:41.2 IND
128 Mikkel Ellesøe Hansen 44 Copenhagen, Amager Free Spirits DEN 6:41.7 C2Log
129 Ed Bishop 45 Cheltenham GBR 6:41.9 RACE
129 Mike Liptack 41 Monroe WA USA 6:41.9 IND
131 Simon Hancock 41 Oasis L Ctr GBR 6:42.0 RACE
131 Pierre Sirven 42 Sevres Vsn FRA 6:42.0 RACE
133 G. Todd Milne 43 Brookline MA USA 6:42.1 RACE
133 Steve Smith 45 Birmingham FREE SPIRITS GBR 6:42.1 RowPro
133 Todd Milne 43 Brookline MA USA 6:42.1 IND
136 David White 45 Kenora CAN 6:42.2 IND
137 Andy Richardson 44 Mount Maunganui NZL 6:42.8 IND_V
137 Peter Klemm 45 Perth WA AUS 6:42.8 IND
139 Douglas Gormley 48 Montreal QC CAN 6:42.9 RACE
139 Huw Thomas 49 Milverton Free Spirits / WSC GBR 6:42.9 RowPro
139 Doug Gormley 48 Montreal CAN 6:42.9 IND
142 Pete Koepp 43 Indianapolis IN USA 6:43.0 RACE
142 Antony Stansbie 46 Sub7 IRC Sub7 IRC GBR 6:43.0 RowPro
142 Martin Kiel 45 Nyborg DEN 6:43.0 IND
145 Toby Smith 44 London GBR 6:43.1 RACE
145 Geoff Oxnam 40 Easton MD USA 6:43.1 C2Log
147 Eckart Kahre 40 Hohenlockstedt SH GER 6:43.4 RowPro
148 Steve Bayliss 47 Thornlands AUS 6:43.5 IND
149 Burch Baskett 41 Palm Harbor FL USA 6:43.6 RACE
152 Chris Smith 46 Salem OR USA 6:43.8 IND
153 Greg Terry 43 Cordova MD USA 6:43.9 IND
154 Morten Haugseng 46 Sandnes NOR 6:44.2 IND
155 Chris Mulrooney 41 Whitchurch-on-Thames GBR 6:44.3 C2Log
156 Herve Valette 43 Port-Marly Rc FRA 6:44.4 RACE
156 Alex Dunne 41 Mill Valley CA USA 6:44.4 IND
158 Daniel Brennan 49 Maitland FL USA 6:44.6 RACE
158 Andrew Stokes 42 Derbyshire Police GBR 6:44.6 RACE
158 Guy Warren 49 St Albans Free Spirits IRC GBR 6:44.6 IND
158 Tom Watt 44 Cambridge GBR 6:44.6 IND
162 Chris Gregory 41 Sunny Lutterworth Sub 7 IRC GBR 6:44.7 RACE
162 Mark Ripley 47 Vashon WA USA 6:44.7 RACE
164 Mark Upex 43 GBR 6:44.8 RACE
165 Karl Parnell 44 Nation Bangkok bangkok GBR 6:44.9 RACE
165 Daniel Potter 45 Providence RI USA 6:44.9 RACE
167 tony short 40 west yorkshire GBR 6:45.0 IND
168 Tim Geldean 40 Erie CO USA 6:45.1 IND
169 Laurence Casey 47 Grantham Free Spirits GBR 6:45.2 RACE
170 Martin Trautschold 45 Ormond Beach FL USA 6:45.4 RACE
170 Tim Wike 43 USA 6:45.4 IND
172 Johnny Magee 42 Moreton in Marsh GBR 6:45.5 IND
173 Amadee Pelgrim 44 Giesbeek Gelderland NLD 6:45.9 RowPro
173 Robert Alderson 44 Prestatyn GBR 6:45.9 IND
173 Davis Bales 46 Petropolis-Rio de Janeiro U.S. Ex Pat BRA 6:45.9 IND
173 Grant Stephenson 49 Richmond North Yorkshire GBR 6:45.9 IND
177 Doug Brockmeyer 49 UT USA 6:46.0 IND
178 Kurt Mohrbacher 47 USA 6:46.1 RACE
178 Alan Benson 43 Sydney (Warrimoo) NSW AUS 6:46.1 IND
180 Chris Chappell 46 Wayland MA USA 6:46.2 RACE
181 Paul Dunston 44 GBR 6:46.3 RACE
181 Yuji Ujiie 49 Hiratsuka JPN 6:46.3 IND
183 Andrew Jones 49 Tewkesbury Gloucestershire GBR 6:46.4 IND
184 ALAN IRWIN 43 PORTRUSH GBR 6:46.5 IND
184 Mark Jell 40 Towcester Free Spirits GBR 6:46.5 IND
186 Dan Edwards 40 York GBR 6:46.8 RACE
187 Duncan Wills 43 York Geexers GBR 6:47.0 RACE
187 Gavin Relph 43 Sydney AUS 6:47.0 IND
189 Frans Spruijt 42 Gouda NLD 6:47.1 IND
189 Aivar Vaus 46 Kiisa Harjumaa EST 6:47.1 IND
191 Jon Irwin 48 USA 6:47.2 RACE
191 Jim Zeller 46 Ashburn VA USA 6:47.2 RACE
191 James Zeller 46 Ashburn VA USA 6:47.2 IND
194 Collin Darrah 47 Sumner WA USA 6:47.3 RACE
194 Will Greene 43 Rochester NY USA 6:47.3 RACE
194 Vince Townsend 46 Isabella Plains ACT AUS 6:47.3 IND
197 Derek Kyme 48 Bath GBR 6:47.4 RACE
197 Mike Podolsky 49 Oakville ON CAN 6:47.4 RowPro
197 SHANE SHAW 48 Landsdale WESTERN AUSTRALIA AUS 6:47.4 RowPro
200 Russ Henry 41 Worcester GBR 6:47.4 IND
201 Uwe Schoepel 43 Frankfurt am Main FRG Oberrad GER 6:47.6 IND
202 Samuel Grandjean 41 FRA 6:47.7 RACE
202 Samuel GRANDJEAN 41 SARAN FRA 6:47.7 IND
204 James Caple 40 Falls Church VA USA 6:47.8 RACE
204 Laurent Dutour 40 Verdun Cn FRA 6:47.8 RACE
204 Trond Amundsen 41 Oslo NOR 6:47.8 IND
204 Dean Hooks 49 Kirkwood MO USA 6:47.8 IND
208 Chris Sear 45 Emsworth GBR 6:47.9 IND
209 Harald Blum 47 Cape Town Western Province ZAF 6:48.0 IND
209 Scott Smith 45 Virginia Beach VA USA 6:48.0 IND
211 Larry Fuson 49 Cameron Park CA USA 6:48.1 IND
212 Nick Hallwood 46 Thames Ditton GBR 6:48.2 RowPro
212 Alessandro Giannini 49 Roma It ITA 6:48.2 IND
214 Geoff Walden 44 Northampton Club Diana GBR 6:48.3 IND
215 Brad Furtney 45 Newmarket Ontario CAN 6:48.5 IND
215 Kirk Knudsen 45 New Haven CT USA 6:48.5 IND
217 David Campbell 47 York GBR 6:48.6 RACE
217 Jack Chidley 41 London GBR 6:48.6 RowPro
219 Rainer Moebius 46 dresden GER 6:48.7 IND
220 Steve Graham 42 Cheltenham NSW AUS 6:48.8 IND
221 joe breuner 48 seattle wa USA 6:48.9 IND
221 Ian Crow 40 Newcastle GBR 6:48.9 IND
223 Mark Lindstrom 40 Gonubie South Africa ZAF 6:49.0 IND
224 Jean benoit Lagarde 43 Senat Ascp FRA 6:49.4 RACE
224 Brian Elsborg 40 Skødstrup DEN 6:49.4 IND
226 Steve Rex 46 Alexandria VA USA 6:49.7 RACE
227 Jesper Theil Hansen 44 Taastrup Free Spirits IRC DEN 6:49.8 RowPro
227 Michael Gaw 41 Alexandria VA USA 6:49.8 IND
227 Marc Monplaisir 41 Ridgewood NJ USA 6:49.8 IND
227 Marc Monplaisir Crossfit 41 Ridgewood NJ USA 6:49.8 IND
231 Colin Bearpark 45 Darlington Sub 7 irc GBR 6:49.9 RowPro
231 Michael Durbahn 49 Hilleroed DEN 6:49.9 IND
233 Jeffrey Hunt 49 Chichester Westgate L Ctr GBR 6:50.0 RACE
233 Peter Weiss 42 Ingolstadt OT GER 6:50.0 RACE
233 Jeff Hunt 49 Tavistock, Devon GBR 6:50.0 IND
233 Peter Weiß 42 Ingolstadt Free Spirits GER 6:50.0 IND
237 Sam Golding 45 AUS 6:50.1 RACE
237 David Hall 47 Pittsfield MA USA 6:50.1 RACE
237 Dave Hall 47 Pittsfield MA USA 6:50.1 IND
237 Adrian Nicholas 42 Crawley West Sussex GBR 6:50.1 IND
241 Francois L Ecu 41 Meaux Cn FRA 6:50.4 RACE
241 Manuel Brico 44 Regen Bayern GER 6:50.4 IND
241 Patrick Dale 40 Pafos CYP 6:50.4 IND
244 Evan Grace 40 Wellesley MA USA 6:50.5 RACE
244 Paul H Madsen 43 Half Moon Bay CA USA 6:50.5 IND
246 Julian Davis 44 SHAPE Mons BEL 6:50.7 C2Log
246 JOEL COMTE 43 REMIRE MONTJOLY FRA 6:50.7 IND
248 Ken Wood 49 Wallsend GBR 6:50.8 IND
249 Jason Chubb 42 Braunton GBR 6:50.9 RACE
250 Jeff Dean 46 New York NY USA 6:50.9 IND
251 Rick Duffield 44 Sub 7 IRC Sub 7 GBR 6:51.0 C2Log
251 Christopher Pelnik 42 Cary NC USA 6:51.0 IND
253 Peter Robertson 44 Toronto ON CAN 6:51.2 IND
254 Alec Helner 43 Brooklyn NY USA 6:51.3 RACE
254 Frank Ross 48 PA USA 6:51.3 RowPro
254 MAGNIER Christophe 40 Marseille FRA 6:51.3 IND
257 martin douglas 44 St .Marys Isles of Scilly GBR 6:51.6 IND
258 Wilbert De Jong 49 Veteranen Nederland NDL 6:51.7 RACE
258 Charles Shaw 46 Belchertown MA USA 6:51.7 RACE
258 Anthony Barrueta 44 Berkeley CA USA 6:51.7 C2Log
261 DAVID MOYSEY 46 BRISTOL GBR 6:51.8 IND
262 David Cropley 42 Adelaide SA AUS 6:52.0 IND
262 Nicholas Petterssen 40 Plainfield VT USA 6:52.0 IND
262 ash thomas 41 GBR 6:52.0 IND
265 Charlie Deal 41 Durham NC USA 6:52.1 IND
266 Brady Bohrmann 46 Falmouth ME USA 6:52.2 RACE
266 Paul Dunston 44 EJD GBR 6:52.2 RACE
268 Benoit Jarlot 40 Reims Reg FRA 6:52.5 RACE
268 Nigel Wilkinson 49 Southport GBR 6:52.5 RACE
268 Scott Gallett 43 Farmington Hills MI USA 6:52.5 IND
271 John Lewellyn 45 Terre Haute IN USA 6:52.6 IND
272 Vincent Bove 44 Meulan Les Mureaux Av FRA 6:52.8 RACE
272 William Docter 40 Beaumont TX USA 6:52.8 RACE
274 Glyn Holland 42 Newmarket GBR 6:52.9 IND
275 Harold Hobson 48 Grahamstown EC ZAF 6:53.0 IND
275 Roy Palmer 41 Seattle WA USA 6:53.0 IND
275 Aaron Wieting 42 Portland OR USA 6:53.0 IND
278 stephen bailey 40 altrincham GBR 6:53.2 IND
279 Justin Watts 45 Cambridge UK GBR 6:53.3 RACE
279 Sean Chapman 40 Jackson WY USA 6:53.3 IND
279 sean mcdonald 42 leeds GBR 6:53.3 IND
282 Allan Stam 48 Saline MI USA 6:53.5 IND
283 Struan Robertson 44 Garches FRA 6:53.6 IND
284 Luc Eyber 46 Port-Marly Rc FRA 6:53.8 RACE
284 Richard Thornbury 41 Grand Rapids MI USA 6:53.8 IND
286 Patrick Vassort 49 Montlucon Ca FRA 6:53.9 RACE
287 Paul McNeill 42 Sub 7 IRC Sub 7 IRC GBR 6:54.0 RACE
287 Sean Dixon 41 Cambridge GBR 6:54.0 IND
287 Kerry Mooney 40 Lavon TX USA 6:54.0 IND
287 Sigbjørn Olsen 41 Sandnessjøen NOR 6:54.0 IND
287 Jeremy Round 43 Manchester GBR 6:54.0 IND
292 Matt Healy 44 Cleveland Heights OH USA 6:54.1 IND
293 Marc Giroud 49 Senat Ascp FRA 6:54.2 RACE
293 Rolf Krüger 46 Haarlem NLD 6:54.2 IND
293 Martin Poulsen 42 Præstø DEN 6:54.2 IND
296 Eddie Scott 45 Hexham Northumberland GBR 6:54.3 RowPro
297 Jens Christian Riis 45 Oslo NOR 6:54.4 C2Log
297 Jonathan Turns 42 Ivybridge, Devon, Sub7 IRC GBR 6:54.4 RowPro
299 Richard Sweatt 48 Ely GBR 6:54.5 IND
300 Del Wilson 43 Rushden GBR 6:54.5 IND
301 Adrian Apletree 45 Brinkhill GBR 6:54.6 IND
301 steve stackpole 40 Ottawa CAN 6:54.6 IND
303 Stuart Chapman 44 York GBR 6:54.8 RACE
303 Chad Goss 47 Groton MA USA 6:54.8 IND
303 Joel Griffith 46 Sacramento CA USA 6:54.8 IND
303 William Schweinle 43 Vermillion SD USA 6:54.8 IND
307 Paul Stanton 49 Bethesda MD USA 6:54.9 IND
308 Pedro Ferreira 46 FRA 6:55.0 RACE
308 Anthony Heath 49 AUS 6:55.0 RACE
310 Nick Greer 48 USA 6:55.2 RACE
310 Jacques Klok 41 NLD 6:55.2 RACE
310 Gwyn Samuel 47 Taff Attack Racing GBR 6:55.2 RACE
310 Jef . 46 Salisbury, Wiltshire Sub 7 irc GBR 6:55.2 IND
310 nicholas greer 48 ormond beach fl USA 6:55.2 IND
310 Pete Spivey 40 Mondsee AUT 6:55.2 IND
316 Tommi Ruuska 44 Finnrowing GBR 6:55.3 RACE
317 p quinn 42 IRL 6:55.4 C2Log
317 Mark Hookway 49 Tonbridge, Kent GBR 6:55.4 IND
319 Boris Jukic 43 Potsdam NY USA 6:55.5 IND
320 Thomas Regan 44 Hollis NH USA 6:55.7 RACE
320 Martin Rasborg 41 7600 Struer DEN 6:55.7 IND
322 Tim Lahner 43 Hillcrest KZN, S Africa ZAF 6:55.8 IND
322 Toni Zwicker 41 whangaparaoa S.A ex pat NZL 6:55.8 IND
324 Lee Melady 41 Stoke on Trent GBR 6:55.9 IND
324 Rob Osborn 43 Sacramento CA USA 6:55.9 IND
326 Matthew Brown 43 Sub 7 IRC Sub 7 GBR 6:56.0 RACE
326 Charlie Carr 49 Falmouth ME USA 6:56.0 RACE
328 Trevor Lovell 41 Fleet GBR 6:56.1 RACE
328 Tim Berry 41 Binfield GBR 6:56.1 C2Log
328 Aksel Vedde 47 Tønsberg NOR 6:56.1 IND
331 Marcus Bankes 42 London GBR 6:56.2 RowPro
332 Joel Kerleau 42 Eogn Melun FRA 6:56.3 RACE
333 Henri Saisset 41 Paris Us Metro FRA 6:56.4 RACE
333 Ian Marlow 46 Leeds GBR 6:56.4 IND
333 Michael Williams 43 Sneads Ferry NC USA 6:56.4 IND
336 Andy Lyon 44 Pricewaterhousecoopers GBR 6:56.5 RACE
337 Darren Woods 43 Royces gym Wigan GBR 6:56.6 IND
338 Gordon Mazza 42 Manchester GBR 6:56.7 RACE
338 Dan Sager 45 Stockholm SWE 6:56.7 IND
340 Thomas Nejman 44 Oakland Twp MI USA 6:56.8 IND
341 Jef Hutchby 46 Sub 7 IRC GBR 6:56.9 RACE
341 Jeroen Reijnoudt 46 Zwanenburg NLD 6:56.9 C2Log
341 Erik van Rootselaar 44 Hillegom NLD 6:56.9 IND
344 Neil Polson 43 Free Spirits GBR 6:57.0 IND
345 Steve Ockerby 48 Townsville AUS 6:57.2 IND
346 Conor Brownlow 47 Auckland NZL 6:57.3 IND
346 Kevin Casey 46 Hamilton NZL 6:57.3 IND
346 Doug Lance 43 Munith MI USA 6:57.3 IND
346 Andy Patience 44 East Hants GBR 6:57.3 IND
350 Eric Sorensen 42 Riverside CA USA 6:57.3 IND
351 Steve Smith 43 Fishers IN USA 6:57.4 IND
351 James Woolf 42 Windsor GBR 6:57.4 IND
353 Jan Weidijk 46 NLD 6:57.5 C2Log
354 David Bould 45 Wrekin GBR 6:57.6 RACE
354 Matt Law 40 Weymouth GBR 6:57.6 IND
354 Jeff Longley 42 Centennial CO USA 6:57.6 IND
357 David Thomas 45 Washington DC USA 6:57.7 RACE
357 Jan Chr Sjo 45 Høvik NOR 6:57.7 C2Log
357 Jason Gibbons 44 S&P IRC GBR 6:57.7 IND
357 Scott Stone 42 Piedmont CA USA 6:57.7 IND
361 Terry Griffiths 42 Wales GBR 6:57.8 IND
361 Matthew Ridgwell 44 Brussels BEL 6:57.8 IND
363 Kent McCleary 41 Renton WA USA 6:57.9 RACE
363 Mark Spain 49 Redmond WA USA 6:57.9 C2Log
363 Paul Lockwood 45 North Shore Auckland NZL 6:57.9 RowPro
363 Ian Blatchford 43 Soham Cambridgeshire GBR 6:57.9 IND
363 James Moermond 46 Weston WI USA 6:57.9 IND
363 Scott Page 46 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:57.9 IND
363 nick roberts 41 sydney AUS 6:57.9 IND
370 Egils Bogdanovics 49 Litchfield CT USA 6:58.1 RACE
370 Tim Rector 43 Mandan ND USA 6:58.1 IND
372 Patrick Guida 48 West Boylston MA USA 6:58.2 RACE
372 Herve Nougier 44 Versailles Cn FRA 6:58.2 RACE
374 David Mellor 40 Doncaster GBR 6:58.3 RACE
374 Todd Rice 46 Boston MA USA 6:58.3 RACE
374 Mario Marks 47 Sub7 / Derby RC Sub7 IRC GBR 6:58.3 RowPro
377 Tim Emanuels 49 Mill Valley CA USA 6:58.4 RACE
377 Claude Faro 42 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:58.4 IND
379 Michael Keenan 44 Hartford CT USA 6:58.5 RACE
379 Mike McDaniel 41 Cement (Caddo county) OK USA 6:58.5 IND_V
379 Rob van der Linde 46 Driehuis NLD 6:58.5 RowPro
379 Simon Cuthbert 43 Driffield East Yorkshire GBR 6:58.5 IND
379 Erik Postma 49 Ecully FRA 6:58.5 IND
384 Mike Wheeler 44 Guelph ON CAN 6:58.6 IND
385 Michel Lassus Dessus 43 Versailles Cn FRA 6:58.7 RACE
386 John Spooner 44 Curtin ACT AUS 6:58.8 C2Log
386 Pat Barrett 41 Southend, Essex GBR 6:58.8 IND
386 Iain Laird 42 Ripley, Derbyshire SUB7 IRC GBR 6:58.8 IND
389 Andrew Doidge 43 Shefford Bedfordshire GBR 6:58.9 IND
389 Matt Thompson 40 Dunedin Otago NZL 6:58.9 IND
389 Lasse Vold 49 Oslo NOR 6:58.9 IND
392 Trevor Woodyatt 47 St Ives GBR 6:59.0 C2Log
392 Dan Apps 40 Grimsby N E Lincolnshire GBR 6:59.0 IND
392 Ben Cote 42 Powell OH USA 6:59.0 IND
395 Nick Aslett 45 Bradford On Avon Wiltshire GBR 6:59.1 RACE
395 Bart Ybema 40 Rotterdam ZH NLD 6:59.1 RowPro
395 Claus Albiez 43 Steinen DE GER 6:59.1 IND
398 Danilo Rovelli 47 Italia GBR 6:59.2 RACE
398 Tony Collins 43 Auckland NZL 6:59.2 IND
400 Jeffrey Williams 47 Bridgewater MA USA 6:59.2 IND
401 Angus Davies 42 Chorley GBR 6:59.3 RACE
401 Milan Líbal 42 Prague Czech Republic CZE 6:59.3 RowPro
401 Rainer Nuennerich 46 Lippstadt NRW GER 6:59.3 IND
404 Randy Wood 43 Lake Ridge VA USA 6:59.4 RACE
404 Jeremy Kimber 46 Leicestershire GBR 6:59.4 C2Log
404 David andrews 42 trowbridge GBR 6:59.4 IND
404 Jim Tompkins 43 Halifax NS CAN 6:59.4 IND
408 Andrew Barker 42 GBR 6:59.5 IND
408 Tim Campbell 41 Bridgewater MA USA 6:59.5 IND
410 Philip Bell 41 Lancaster Lancashire GBR 6:59.6 IND
411 Mike Burke 42 Bakewell Derbys GBR 6:59.7 RACE
411 Guy Potter 42 Norwich Norfolk GBR 6:59.7 RowPro
411 Dion Durnford 42 Fredericton NB CAN 6:59.7 IND
414 Steve Sharples 45 Halton Core Strength Gym GBR 6:59.8 RACE
415 James Hilliard 46 Sumner WA USA 6:59.9 RACE
415 Jonny Lear 45 Pembrokeshire Free Spirits GBR 6:59.9 C2Log
415 Greg Darrah 40 Sacramento CA USA 6:59.9 RowPro
418 Bill Pike 41 London GBR 7:00.0 IND
418 Jason Sheriff 42 Hamilton NZL 7:00.0 IND
418 Dan Tharp 43 West Sacramento CA USA 7:00.0 IND
421 Mike Smith 44 cardiff GBR 7:00.1 IND
422 Rune Andreas Kvam 41 Troms NOR 7:00.3 IND
423 Renato Valtulini 45 Progetto Sport Bg GBR 7:00.4 RACE
423 Paul Bolton 43 Lincoln GBR 7:00.4 IND
425 Xavier Malinowski 41 Buc Ao FRA 7:00.6 RACE
425 Nick Storm 48 Moon Twp. PA USA 7:00.6 IND
427 Eric Rufas 42 Ris Orangis Us FRA 7:00.8 RACE
428 Iain Kefford 40 Harry Tempest Rowing Squad GBR 7:00.9 RACE
428 Keith Allen 47 Flackwell Heath Buckinghamshire GBR 7:00.9 C2Log
430 Jean claude Carolin 42 Rambouillet Olympique FRA 7:01.0 RACE
430 Bryan Woods 40 Hyde Park NY USA 7:01.0 RACE
430 Nico Way 47 Schagen NLD 7:01.0 IND
433 Didier Lampin 42 Sca Saint Maur FRA 7:01.1 RACE
434 Bruce Watson 44 Elmira NY USA 7:01.2 RACE
434 Pete Trick 48 Dayton OH USA 7:01.2 IND
436 Pierre Bironneau 41 Sca Saint Maur FRA 7:01.3 RACE
436 Björn Ydremark 48 Linsurf, Linköping VS SWE 7:01.3 IND
438 Patrick Bonguardo 43 Port-Marly Rc FRA 7:01.4 RACE
438 Jim Bovell 45 Virgin Kingston GBR 7:01.4 RACE
440 Stuart King 46 Melbourne AUS 7:01.6 RACE
440 Joe Lohman 42 Rothbury MI USA 7:01.6 RowPro
440 David McKnight 40 Belleville ontario CAN 7:01.6 IND
443 David Makowski 40 Brooklyn NY USA 7:01.8 RACE
443 Martin Spinnler 48 Zürich age without limits CHE 7:01.8 IND
445 Benjamin Patz 48 FL USA 7:01.9 RACE
445 François Ceppi 47 Geneva CHE 7:01.9 C2Log
447 Robert Flynn 40 RI USA 7:02.0 IND
448 Didier LAMPIN 42 Saint-Maur FRA 7:02.2 IND
449 Todd Condell 46 Lavallette NJ USA 7:02.3 IND
450 Martin Simak 41 Tabor CZE 7:02.3 IND
451 Kevin P Reynolds 48 Runcorn RC (rrc 1894) GBR 7:02.4 RACE
452 Philippe Muse 47 Csag Suippes FRA 7:02.5 RACE
452 Scott Dunham 44 Brisbane AUS 7:02.5 IND
454 Mark Brown 41 Vienna VA USA 7:02.6 RACE
455 Dominic Luckett 43 London GBR 7:02.8 IND
456 Mark Jordan 43 Sittingbourne Kent GBR 7:02.9 IND
456 Piet van Dijke 42 Amsterdam NLD 7:02.9 IND
458 Stephen Craig-Pearson 40 Dunedin Otago Rowing Club NZL 7:03.0 IND
458 Jerrie Nillessen 48 Westervoort NLD 7:03.0 IND
460 Mick Finlay 44 Derby GBR 7:03.3 IND
461 Carl Watts 43 North Shore Auckland NZL 7:03.6 RowPro

ranger

[snowleopard]

May just sneak in a Sub 7 in this season yet.....

If you can row a 7:03 @ 24 then just rate up to 28, sit on 1:45s and sprint the last 500m. Not much practice required, just follow the monitor.

[mikvan52]

General comment:
There's always the danger over oversimplification. I do that frequently.

But consider this:
Why do athletes 1st block out their training cycles in periods starting with a couple of months of low intensity?
Isn't it to work on the CV system/VO2 max?
To my mind this makes oxygen uptake the corner stone of future capability. You are all correct in saying that that is just for starters. Lactate tolerance routines etc. are of supreme importance... But you've got to start with the CV system.

The reason ranger and (me/myself/and/I) got as far as we did was not because we stayed sharp are whole lives.. It's because we did the steady work which developed our VO2 max "gifts" in early life...
You can't do that at age 60.AFAIK....

(I look for more information from anyone here to better educate me on this.
The main reason I was once able to run 24 by 1 mile at sub 5' in one day was because as a kid I went hiking for days in the mountains... Not mainly because I could also do 20 by 1/4 mile w/a 110 jog avging 60-65 sec.... That kind of work was, after all, done v. infrequently....

So there's my authority... based on experience and trial and error... Naturally I'm shading this towards me (an error) but since I'm a slow-twitch athlete, I speak primarily about slow twitch athletes.)I was a 31 10k guy (on the roads) a 2:26 marathoner, a 4:25 miler. Now I'm a 16,130m/hr rower, and a 6:45 2k erger. in my late 50's)
I've seen many people with talents similar to mine fall short w/short cut training that burns them out

Continuing the prior thought:

OTOH: remembering that most reputable coaching for the 2k distance emphasizes a 10%/90% time load for speed vs all other training.... we can see that high intensity training near max heart rates and high lactate production is not to be done a whole lot of the time.

And who really among casual trainers on this forum are going to do lactate testing anyway? This is why rule of thumb programs do so well... counting heart beats and the like... but I digress...

Gotta go row. Steady State!

[hjs]

Well just had a great evening row starting with a 10K in 38:55 at only 19 SPM followed by about 10 minutes of rest and then a 2K PB of 7:03.6 at only 24 SPM.

Went out way to fast on the 2K at 1:38 and had to back off in the middle before finishing it at 1:45 pace. I need more practice at this distance rowing at 1:45 all the way through.

Yes I row for fitness. Fitness to me means Cardio fitness. At this stage I have no idea where I can get to in terms of my rowing performance as I have not been at what I would call my my peak since age 12 when I could play 4 games of soccer in a row in a knockout tournament. Weights in my opinion do not lead to "fitness" (I did it for years), they build bone density and muscle mass, both help your rowing in terms of power but with no intense sustained cardio as well your going nowhere fast in distance rowing. LP and 100M and maybe 500M sure great but any more on weights alone and your just going to fly then die.

May just sneak in a Sub 7 in this season yet.....

If you can do this at rate 24 and with a to fast start you can do much better right now, sub 7 is 100% sure, you shouild look a 6.45 ish, not just sub 7

[ausrwr]

That's fine for those who need to improve their fitness, but it doesn't apply to me.

The training I have been doing improves my rowing.

I can't improve my fitness.

My fitness has been maximal for close to a decade, that is, over the whole time I have been racing on the erg (since 2001).

Excellent, so if you can't improve your fitness, you'll be ready to show some WR-standard results, ohh, right about now?

[jliddil]

Are you asking me to find several other sources that prove my point? VO2 max is a very small part of the equation for elite athletes. If you cannot operate at a lactate threshold that is 85-90% of your VO2 max, you will get curbstomped regardless of your VO2 max. The whole reason that a technical sport like OTW rowing is ruled by those that have rowed for years is because it requires efficiency both in the motion OF rowing to not waste energy and not offset the boat; and efficiency in the cellular sense.

No I'm not asking for more sources I am just making the point that there are many views on all this and it is easy to oversimplify this whole discussion. I did research for longer than you've been alive so I know how anyone can use selective sources to make their point.

Diet has nothing to do with it (sadly). Look at Phelps. He had to eat ~12000 kCal/day just to maintain weight. He threw junk down his system (I was hearing a whole pizza every day). Sleep, yes sleep is a negative factor for performance but it has no bearing on your VO2 max and lactate threshold. Sleep loss brings in a whole new set of physiological factors that negate any fitness gains. I looked at sleep loss and heat acclimatization in the research I was helping with last semester, and it seemed that the acclimatization worked well to stop the negative effects of sleep loss.

Just to be fair, you brought up a lot of short-term performance inhibitors. I'm thinking about the long term training that makes one an elite athlete.

First we can not ignore genetics. People like Phelps, Mike ranger, lance have a distinct genetic advantage. To ignore genetics is just ignorant. Diet is important. When we are talking 100s or 1000s of a second what you eat can give you that edge. Dara Torres eats right and has great genetics and pure mental focus. I really am referring more to long term physical fitness maintenance. Over the long term diet can make a difference. Look at the tour de france guys. Phelps also supposedly smoked bongs. The guy has superior genetics and trains hard.

My real point is that certain factors play a bigger role than others but it is the sum of all the parts that make great athletes who can maintain their winning ways through out life. Wait until you are 50 and try to party all night and perform at your peak in sports or your job the next day.

[ausrwr]

Hear, hear.

Agreed.

Now, as I am approaching 60 years old, I am doing 1:42 @ 30 spm under my anaerobic threshold.

Seven years ago, when I was 53, I could only do 1:48 @ 30 spm under my anaerobic threshold, even though my anaerobic threshold was undoubtedly higher.

The difference is effectiveness and efficiency in rowing, not aerobic capacity.

I used to row like shit.

I now row well.

ranger

So, as you can't get any fitter (ref my previous post re your idiotic statement) and you now row well, a WR tomorrow?

No, because like your statement that you're rowing at 1:42 under your threshold, your statements about not being able to get any fitter, and that you now 'row well', your postulations of a WR row are just utter bullshit.

There is no way in the world that you are anywhere near 1:42 at threshold. You don't have any evidence to show that you know what your AT is. A 5k time of 1:40-ish might suggest you have a 1:42 threshold pace. A 2k of under 6:10 might be an indicator. Your 6:41 is nothing of the sort. A 17:18 in 2002 is nothing of the sort.

But again, your machine is not going to see a 16:40 5k unless someone else does it for you.

Your continued inability to lay down a time that you're satisfied with has nothing to do with you not being fit enough, not being sharpened enough, or not rowing well enough.

It has everything to do with you not being good enough.

Deal with it, or shut up.