The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

Watching ranger for years now: Do you feel as I do?
RWB is sharpening. All he does is sharpen : vis. "no easy strokes" "13.x spi" and the like.
It's given ranger great scores but no WR in the 55-59 age group. Hence, it is a failure.

Failure?

You mean in doing what no one has ever done, except me:

be a 2K male WR-holder, 40-70, and get better?

We'll see.

The jury is still out.

I am not interested in pulling 6:38.

How can I be, when I have pulled 6:28?

I am interested in pulling 6:16.

Different matter entirely, demanding a different training plan, entirely.

In the meantime, my training regimen has only made me 20 seconds better than anyone else my age and weight over 2K, without even preparing for it (with hard distance rowing, distance trials, and sharpening).

I'll take that for the time being, while I am waiting for the _full_ results of my training to roll in.

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (59–70) | Current 2010 Season

1 Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.4 RACE
2 Hugh Pite 65 Sidney BC CAN 7:02.7 RACE
3 Robert Lakin 61 Wichita KS USA 7:03.6 RACE
4 gregory brock 62 santa cruz ca USA 7:03.9 IND
5 Rolf Meek 59 Oslo NOR 7:05.4 IND
6 Jerry Lawson 62 USA 7:06.0 RACE
6 Gerald Lawson 62 Winona MN USA 7:06.0 IND
8 Leif Petersen 64 DEN 7:08.5 RACE
9 Peter Francis 61 Denver CO USA 7:09.3 RACE
10 Roger Prowse 65 GBR 7:10.3 RACE

ranger

[ranger]

Change your training and you'll return to the very top on the erg as a 60 year old.

I have already changed my training from what you seem to think I am doing.

I am already at the very top, without even preparing for it.

And I am not yet 60 years old.

At BIRC in the fall, I will be 59, fully trained, and ready to race well.

We'll see, but at BIRC 2010, I think I will be in the range of 20 seconds under Roy's 55s lwt WR, while Roy himself, if he chooses to row, will have trouble coming within a dozen of seconds of what he could do five years ago.

Why?

"Two Types of Training" (the name of this thread).

There are two types of training, (1) training that advances your base so that you have the possibility of going faster than you did last year or five years ago and (2) training that gets you ready to race.

The first sort of training is work on basic fitness, UT work, UT2 and UT1, and work on technique.

The second sort of work is AT, TR, and AN work.

As you age, if your focus is just on the second sort of work, you race well, but you decline by a second or so a year over 2K, even if you work as hard as you can in training, and you never do anything out of the ordinary.

The gains you can get by doing the first sort of work are limited in various ways, but can still be large.

They depend on the balance/imbalance in your training, your training volume, your athletic ability, your aerobic capacity, your technical accomplishment, your endurance, your experience in other sports, your base fitness, your cross-trainiing, your strength, etc.

If you have glaring weaknesses, advances in any of these things can improve your base significantly and lay the foundations for a leap forward in your race preparation and racing, even for something extraordinary.

By and large, the standard 2K training plans are just of the second sort.

They prepare you to race.

Therefore, if you have ever trained to race before, given some training base that you have already established, they have no bearing at all on how you might get better.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

Watching ranger for years now: Do you feel as I do?
RWB is sharpening. All he does is sharpen : vis. "no easy strokes" "13.x spi" and the like.
It's given ranger great scores but no WR in the 55-59 age group. Hence, it is a failure.

Failure?

You mean in doing what no one has ever done, except me: be a 2K male WR-holder, 40-70, and get better?

(snip)

ranger

Wrong. As you were reminded on 10 January, 2 March and 31 March:

At the 1995 Crash-Bs, the great Paul Hendershott (52) took 10 seconds off his own 50+ MHW record. And John Doyle broke his own 50+ MLW record but finished 2nd to a new WR set by the dieted-down Jean-Paul Tardieu. That was over 2500m, with heats. In 1996 they switched to 2k; perforce the year's best times were new WRs. At the 1997 Crash-Bs, Paul Hendershott took 4 seconds off his year-old WR in the 50+ HWs.

But why let a little thing like rectitude spoil a good fantasy....

[ranger]

Wrong.

So, it hasn't been done for 15 years?

By _anyone_ (except me)?

No 40s lightweight?

No 40s heavyweight?

No 50s lightweight?

No 50s heavyweight?

No 55s lightweight?

No 55s heavyweight?

No 60s lightweight?

No 60s heavyweight?

No 65s lightweight?

No 65s heavyweight?

Hmm.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Rich: I no longer have any confidence that your training might bring you back to the 6:28 2k performance you did 8 years ago.
I once thought that it might be possible and I expected that progress reports from you would show that you were advancng toward this goal.

But (!) : The years have passed now and you not only haven't gotten any such time (open weight) but also have not logged any progress reports that would indicate anything faster than 6:4x speed at 2k.
This is why Henry took a chance with his wager and won.(a year ago)

w/o "sharpening" you need a 1:27- 1:28 500m piece (for raw speed) to build upon for a sub 6:30.
There are a host of other TIME TRIALS (not races) that would indicate sub 6:30 potential. You don't have them.

Getting old puts a damper on speed. Such is life. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
Thanks for spicing up the forum with your wild imaginings and misrepresentations: It sure is entertaining. At least we'll always have your thousands of posts to provide laughs.

[mikvan52]

Beautiful morning OTW.

Put in 12K OTW

ranger totals otw this season: 32k

coaches advice:
Scrap the plan to scull all you meters at 26 spm or higher.

How did you arrive at that rating anyway?

[ranger]

Rich: I no longer have any confidence that your training might bring you back to the 6:28 2k performance you did 8 years ago.
I once thought that it might be possible and I expected that progress reports from you would show that you were advancng toward this goal.

But (!) : The years have passed now and you not only haven't gotten any such time (open weight) but also have not logged any progress reports that would indicate anything faster than 6:4x speed at 2k.
This is why Henry took a chance with his wager and won.(a year ago)

w/o "sharpening" you need a 1:27- 1:28 500m piece (for raw speed) to build upon for a sub 6:30.
There are a host of other TIME TRIALS (not races) that would indicate sub 6:30 potential. You don't have them.

Getting old puts a damper on speed. Such is life. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
Thanks for spicing up the forum with your wild imaginings and misrepresentations: It sure is entertaining. At least we'll always have your thousands of posts to provide laughs.

You can laugh after BIRC 2010, if you would like, when I will be fully trained and rowing well.

But, of course, it will be an ironic laugh, at best, because no matter what I do on the erg, it will be quite a bit beyond what you can do.

So it goes.

No matter what you do, there is always someone better.

ranger

[ranger]

Beautiful morning OTW.

Put in 12K OTW

ranger totals otw this season: 32k

coaches advice:
Scrap the plan to scull all you meters at 26 spm or higher.

How did you arrive at that rating anyway?

I am starting at 26 spm but that is just to get back into the swing of things again with bladework, et al.

As the summer goes by, I will push that rate to 30 spm.

Why 30 spm?

It just comes naturally.

That's what I do from day to day on the erg.

My regimen will be to row 20K on the erg just before dawn and then 20K OTW just after dawn.

They feel the same to me.

So I match them.

ranger

[macroth]

So, it hasn't been done for 15 years?

By _anyone_ (except me)?

ranger

You haven't done it either. 6:41>6:28.

And for all intents and purposes, Fictionaltimethatmayormaynotbedoneinthefuture>6:28

[ranger]

Watching ranger for years now: Do you feel as I do?
RWB is sharpening. All he does is sharpen : vis. "no easy strokes" "13.x spi" and the like.
It's given ranger great scores but no WR in the 55-59 age group. Hence, it is a failure.

Failure?

You mean in doing what no one has ever done, except me: be a 2K male WR-holder, 40-70, and get better?

(snip)

ranger

Wrong. As you were reminded on 10 January, 2 March and 31 March:

At the 1995 Crash-Bs, the great Paul Hendershott (52) took 10 seconds off his own 50+ MHW record. And John Doyle broke his own 50+ MLW record but finished 2nd to a new WR set by the dieted-down Jean-Paul Tardieu. That was over 2500m, with heats. In 1996 they switched to 2k; perforce the year's best times were new WRs. At the 1997 Crash-Bs, Paul Hendershott took 4 seconds off his year-old WR in the 50+ HWs.

But why let a little thing like rectitude spoil a good fantasy....

Well, I suppose the best response to this would be to break Hendershott's 60s hwt WR this year rowing as a lightweight.

I'll see what I can do.

Veteran lightweight and heavyweight times differ by about 17 seconds.

ranger

[ranger]

So, it hasn't been done for 15 years?

By _anyone_ (except me)?

ranger

You haven't done it either. 6:41>6:28.

And for all intents and purposes, Fictionaltimethatmayormaynotbedoneinthefuture>6:28

No.

I _already_ did it--twice.

Sonotfictionatallyoudumbassbutasrealascanbe.

I set the 50s lwt WR at WIRC 2003 at 6:30.

Then I broke that WR _twice_ in the fall, in a USIRT trial, pulling 6:29, and at BIRC 2003, pulling 6:28.

That was pretty small potatoes, though.

The issue for me now is being the best I can be.

Completely different issue.

In 2003, I didn't know how to row (and therefore rowed like shit).

Fully trained and rowing well, I think I'll pull 6:16 at 60.

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

Well, I suppose the best response to this would be to break Hendershott's 60s hwt WR this year rowing as a lightweight.
I'll see what I can do.

Good thinking. That'll show 'em.

I'll join you in setting records. Let me know which day you are going to do that. The same day I will break Usain Bolt's 100m record. It will be a banner day for Michigan.

[ranger]

Beautiful morning OTW.

Put in 12K OTW

ranger totals otw this season: 32k

coaches advice:
Scrap the plan to scull all you meters at 26 spm or higher.

How did you arrive at that rating anyway?

There are lots of singles at the Head of the Charles rating 30-32 spm.

Just because you can't rate up doesn't mean that I shouldn't.

ranger

[ranger]

Well, I suppose the best response to this would be to break Hendershott's 60s hwt WR this year rowing as a lightweight.
I'll see what I can do.

Good thinking. That'll show 'em.

I'll join you in setting records. Let me know which day you are going to do that.

I just told you.

BIRC 2010

Sunday, November 21st, 2010

ranger

[macroth]

I _already_ did it--twice.

Sonotfictionatallyoudumbassbutasrealascanbe.

I set the 50s lwt WR at WIRC 2003 at 6:30.

Then I broke that WR _twice_ in the fall, in a USIRT trial, pulling 6:29, and at BIRC 2003, pulling 6:28.

ranger

My mistake. Breaking your own record by two seconds a few months later is quite impressive. You were on a roll in 2003! Ah, memories.

So, did you improve your time again in 2004?