The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

Rowing is significantly physical, no?

ranger

[macroth]

Rowing is significantly physical, no?

ranger

Speaking from experience, yes, and even more so when your technique is crap and you're wasting energy all over the place.

[mikvan52]

Here's an anecdote, ranger:

I would have thought you'd heard a similar one by now:

National class OTW coach gets a World Class erger for a summer development program: a kid who's been rowing for 4 years with great results (not "best" => just great).
After moths of seat-racing Kid cannot match "weaker" ergers when it comes to time trials OTW. Kid doesn't make team.

Gives us a T.R.E.A.T.* explanation for this why don't you?

I'll wait to see your 60' - non RWB - IND_V - LWT erg piece "coming right up!" (you've never posted one before)
You're right! You have never handled down on one of these because you've never handled up!
Being a Glory-Weight's a bitch, ain't it?

Are you you going to race as a hwt at Master's Nationals as a 60 year-old? How many times have you raced consecutive races in the same day when you've had to cut so much water weight to bring yourself down to 160 lbs?

*acronym of the day:
The Rich's Excellent Adventure Training (TREAT)
Jingle: "You can't be poor
When you've got "The Rich's"
Just give it a whirl
And you'll be in stitches"

[mikvan52]

Mike--


Seriously, I am indeed interested in your claim that my stroke on the erg is bad in some way and inappropriate for OTW rowing, in ways that the stroke you use on the erg isn't.

Why don't we both do videos, say, 500m, 1:45 @ 27 spm, a couple of minutes of a nice distance stroke at 11 SPI and a modest pace, and take a look at what we are doing on the erg in terms of technique?

I would indeed like to learn something from you (or anyone else) about what I am doing wrong, if there is something glaringly awry, especially when I don't think there is.

Perhaps Nav can give us a frame by frame analysis that points up differences in our technique, whether strengths or weaknesses.

A nice elaboration of this would be to do _two_ videos, one of our rowing and one of the force curve, pace, and rate on the PM3/4, while we are rowing.

ranger

This is all I have right now.


and here's a post from my blog that shows I'm still able to keep up this kind of work this year.

http://concept2.co.uk/forum/blog.php?u=7679&b=70967

Do you have any monitor data? TO go along with your looney-tunes?

i think you've seen this water video... It's where you and I will be sculling in a few short weeks...

[Byron Drachman]

March 30, 2010: Before the end of the [next] month, I will do all of the races, from 500m to FM--all as a lwt. I will do them IND_V and enter them in the 50s lwt rankings.

Raise your hand if you believe this will happen. Hmmm. I don't see any hands raised.

April 14, 2010: --snip--I would indeed like to learn something from you (or anyone else) about what I am doing wrong, if there is something glaringly awry, especially when I don't think there is.

People have been telling you for years what the glaring mistakes are. You don't think there is anything wrong. It is pointless to repeat but I'll remind you of a few of your major problems. First, you are doing over the barrel. Second, you are doing a flip-catch. Third, you are slobbering on the feather. Fourth, you are diving at the finish. Fifth, you don't have enough balance to get your hands outside the boat at the catch.

Cue to say: But that was two years ago. You haven't seen my new, perfect stroke.

[ranger]

eing a Glory-Weight's a bitch, ain't it?

If I pull even 1:45 for 60min, which I think I will, weight is no issue.

1:45 breaks the 50s heavyweight WR for 60min, even though I am 59, and predicts the 60s heavyweight 2K WR.

For WIRC 2011, I will be 60.

And I can indeed make weight for a 2K, if I want, as I will want to in the fall, in order to set the 55s lwt WR where it should be (sub-6:30).

ranger

[ranger]

Are you you going to race as a hwt at Master's Nationals as a 60 year-old? How many times have you raced consecutive races in the same day when you've had to cut so much water weight to bring yourself down to 160 lbs?

You have more non-fat body mass than I do.

I don't have to cut water at all.

Just fat.

ranger

[ranger]

You have never handled down on one of these because you've never handled up!

My 60min pb is 16.7K.

But that was not knowing how to row.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Are you you going to race as a hwt at Master's Nationals as a 60 year-old? How many times have you raced consecutive races in the same day when you've had to cut so much water weight to bring yourself down to 160 lbs?

You have more non-fat body mass than I do.

I don't have to cut water at all.

Just fat.

ranger

I didn't mean to say "Have to" cut water. I say: you do cut water to make weight. You have a history of it.

As for "non -fat body mass and other measurements:
This can all be tested at UVM as I suggested earlier this morning (Declan AJ Connely's lab)
Want to go? I'll pay just to settle all our body mass - AT - VO2 max comparisons once and for all.
We can do it in conjunction with traveling to the "Black Fly" regatta...

Sure would be interesting. I'm not emotionally invested in the outcome of such tests.
I am in the "Point A to Point B" outcomes of non simulated rowing.

Best of luck with your erging between now and the end of THIS month. WIll you quit the erg in favor of the water for the summer? Some WR holders on the erg do... Some don't even erg much at all ever (like Ursula Grobler). She's said she hates it.

[mikvan52]

You have never handled down on one of these because you've never handled up!

My 60min pb is 16.7K.

But that was not knowing how to row.

ranger

Was that LWT?

[PaulH]

Best of luck with your erging between now and the end of THIS month. WIll you quit the erg in favor of the water for the summer?

I think you may find it's rather sooner than that - we have a self-imposed deadline to deal with, so my guess is ranger will announce that he's decided not to bother with the erg for the rest of the season as he's focused on OTW training. And with that another year of predictions will be done, and almost entirely unfulfilled.

[whp4]

Best of luck with your erging between now and the end of THIS month. WIll you quit the erg in favor of the water for the summer?

I think you may find it's rather sooner than that - we have a self-imposed deadline to deal with, so my guess is ranger will announce that he's decided not to bother with the erg for the rest of the season as he's focused on OTW training. And with that another year of predictions will be done, and almost entirely unfulfilled.

Not so sure about that -- have there been any nay-sayer predictions that won't have been fulfilled?

[nysaag]

PaulH wrote:

mikvan52 wrote:Best of luck with your erging between now and the end of THIS month. WIll you quit the erg in favor of the water for the summer?



I think you may find it's rather sooner than that - we have a self-imposed deadline to deal with, so my guess is ranger will announce that he's decided not to bother with the erg for the rest of the season as he's focused on OTW training. And with that another year of predictions will be done, and almost entirely unfulfilled.


And another year will go by and Ranger will still not have paid his debts.

[ranger]

Here's an anecdote

Not much interested in anecdotes. They can be relevant--or not.

ranger

[ranger]

You have a history of it

Habits can be changed, depending on purposes.

My habit in 2002 was to race at 190 lbs, given my purposes then.

My habit is 2003 was to race at 160 lbs., given my purposes then.

2K times were just about the same, regardless of weight.

6:28

The only difference was fat.

ranger