The Two Types of Training

[johnlvs2run]

If Jon could learn to do the distance rowing, and did it regularly, he would regularly pull 6:16.

Right now, his training is unbalanced.

What is really shocking is having a 116 HR after 3 full minutes of rest.

[mrfit]

I think more interesting would be to see what power plot you see rowing at 170bpm over some 6500m.
I rowed at 28spm for that piece.

Yes, 28 spm is a nice rate for a 10K.

But you are only pulling 8.7 SPI.

For 10K, I would rate about the same but pull 11.7 SPI.

Yes, I would do 10K rowing at my anaerobic threshold.

I would do 60min and a HM rowing at my anaerobic threshold, too.

So, when I do distance trials, I'll post splits, HRs, etc., then you will have what you find "more interesting."

This data is really only interesting for your biking, though.

For your rowing, it should be much more interesting to you how many watts you are pulling per stroke (SPI), your effectiveness.

You will never go anywhere very fast on the erg pulling 8.7 SPI.

I am 60 years old and my natural stroke is 35% stronger.

I also wonder about your steep physical decline with age.

If you pulled 6:40 for 2K in college, then, you would have done 10K at 1:48/36:00

So, you are losing about 4 seconds per 500m per decade over 10K.

That means that you are heading for about a 2:04 10K when you are 60--41:20--16 seconds per 500m slower than you were in college.

I am 60.

My 10K goal is 1:42/34:00.

ranger

1:42/500m for a 10k erg when you are 60? That's really good. My erg future seems a bit dimmer, it seems. Glad I had my time rowing that I did. Nothing more amazing than a championship 8 at full tilt, staring out at 40 other rowers to either side of you., passing and repassing at 1:30/500m as we charge for the finish, coxes screaming, crowd roaring. Ahhhhh...sweet memories of near death experience.

Hey, when we ride in the Whites do you want to do an out and back course on the Kancamagus? It's 2800 feet of climbing over the first 10 miles or so, then it's a complete roller coaster 22 miles to Conway (It's fun..you can pass cars you go so fast). Then we'd turn around and do it in reverse. It's hard to get back to Lincoln any other way then just going back but I could plan a loop course somewhere else alternatively. Late June timing works out well. I'll have completed the first 6 races in the TT series I'm doing and then the other 3 races are not until August so it's my mid season racing break.

-- mrfit

[lancs]

1:42/500m for a 10k erg when you are 60? That's really good.

Well it would be good if he could do even 5k at 1:42. But he can't. I'm guessing the handle would drop somewhere around the 2-2.5k mark at that pace.
How are your distance trials coming on for the end of the month Prof? Not well I'm guessing..

[mikvan52]

As the month of April wears on, the focus turns in the rankings turns naturally to the oodles of 59 year old lightweights posting times at sixty minutes

The leader (and only member of this unprecedented subset of chain yanking humanity) is, none other than Len Johstone who has logged 13,845 meters.

Can any other 59 year old rise to the occasion and top what "the Brute of Bingley" has accomplished this season?
Then there will be two 59 year old lwt people who posted!


RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 60 minutes | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (59–59) | Current 2010 Season

Place Name Age City Country Distance Source
1 Len Johnstone 59 Bingley GBR 13845 IND

[Byron Drachman]

1:42/500m for a 10k erg when you are 60? That's really good.

Well it would be good if he could do even 5k at 1:42. But he can't. I'm guessing the handle would drop somewhere around the 2-2.5k mark at that pace.
How are your distance trials coming on for the end of the month Prof? Not well I'm guessing..

Hi Lancs,
His training has been perfect so I am sure he will do his FM:

Feb 11, 2010: That means that within the month, I will row a FM @ 1:45 and 60min at 1:40.

Well, it might require some time travel back in time , but if David Thorne can do it Ranger can do it just as well.

[johnlvs2run]

Feb 11, 2010: That means that within the month, I will row a FM @ 1:45 and 60min at 1:40.

Well, it might require some time travel back in time , but if David Thorne can do it Ranger can do it just as well.

O ye, of little faith.

[ranger]

1:42/500m for a 10k erg when you are 60? That's really good.

Well it would be good if he could do even 5k at 1:42. But he can't. I'm guessing the handle would drop somewhere around the 2-2.5k mark at that pace.
How are your distance trials coming on for the end of the month Prof? Not well I'm guessing..

Training is coming along great.

Couldn't be better.

1:45 @ 27 spm is now only 160 bpm.

Very comfortable stuff.

A solid 11 SPI.

Spectacular training for a 60s lwt.

Unprecedented.

If I do the 1:45 @ 27 spm for a HM, I break the 60s lwt WR for HM by 8 seconds per 500m.

ranger

[ranger]

Hey, when we ride in the Whites do you want to do an out and back course on the Kancamagus? It's 2800 feet of climbing over the first 10 miles or so, then it's a complete roller coaster 22 miles to Conway (It's fun..you can pass cars you go so fast). Then we'd turn around and do it in reverse. It's hard to get back to Lincoln any other way then just going back but I could plan a loop course somewhere else alternatively. Late June timing works out well. I'll have completed the first 6 races in the TT series I'm doing and then the other 3 races are not until August so it's my mid season racing break.

You know the alternatives. Anything would be fine. You pick the course. I'll just tag along for the ride. I look forward to it. See you then.

ranger

[lancs]

If I do the 1:45 @ 27 spm for a HM, I break the 60s lwt WR for HM by 8 seconds per 500m

If next door's cat does 1:45 for a HM he also breaks the WR. And incidentally, next door's cat has supplied as much evidence as you have that he can row 1:45 for even 5k..

[PaulH]

The only thing I haven't done is hit my target yet.

But I won't do that until my training is done.

But if the only thing you haven't done is hit your target, then your training must be done, otherwise it's not the only thing you haven't done.

Don't forget, 19 days to do 10 ranking pieces, best start in on that pretty soon!

[ranger]

His training has been perfect

Gorgeously stable rowing now, 1:43 @ 29 spm (10 MPS, 11 SPI), with my HR still under my anaerobic threshold.

Couldn't ask for anything better.

With a light drag, great length, quick finishes and recoveries, and good preparation at the catch, the rate doesn't feel high at all.

Snappy.

No need to row at a lower rate.

This is comfortable everyday rowing, both physiologically and skeletal-muscularly.

No sprinting at high rates; no anchor hauling at low rates.

Just relaxed, smooth, steady state, distance rowing.

One pace and rate fits all.

How do I break all of my distance pbs from 5K to HM: 5K, 6K, 30min, 10K, 60min, HM?

I can do it in one session.

Just row.

10 MPS, 11 SPI

Stop after 75 minutes.

Voila.



Great stuff.

If I did this next year, I would break the 60s lwt WR for 5K by 1 second per 500m; 6K, by 3 seconds per 500m, 30min by 5 seconds per 500m, 10K by 7 seconds per 500m, 60min by 9 seconds per 500m, and HM by 11 seconds per 500m.

ranger

[ranger]

What is hard to fathom is why someone like NavHaz has so much trouble with distance rowing at 10 MPS.

Given his massive stroking power, why is even 10 SPI impossible for him?

Mysterious.

NavHaz is _very_ effective, but (it seems) _massively_ inefficient.

If he worked on this weakness, he could be _great_.

But (it seems) he doesn't prefer to.

He prefers to parade his strengths, over and over, which just makes him worse and worse.

To each his own, I guess.

ranger

[lancs]

Gorgeously stable rowing now, 1:43 @ 29 spm (10 MPS, 11 SPI), with my HR still under my anaerobic threshold

Yet another completely meaningless and irrelevant statement. Your rowing with breaks means nothing in the real world until you manage to hold this imaginary 1:43 pace for a distance. Any distance. Try 3k first of all and tell us how you get on..

[ranger]

Your rowing with breaks means nothing in the real world until you manage to hold this imaginary 1:43 pace for a distance. Any distance. Try 3k first of all and tell us how you get on..

For my peers, 1:45 is faster than 2K race pace.

This year no 60s lwt pulled 7:00 for 2K.

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (59–70) | Current 2010 Season

1 Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.4 RACE
2 Hugh Pite 65 Sidney BC CAN 7:02.7 RACE
3 Robert Lakin 61 Wichita KS USA 7:03.6 RACE
4 Gregory Brock 62 Santa Cruz CA USA 7:03.9 IND
5 Rolf Meek 59 Oslo NOR 7:05.4 IND
6 Jerry Lawson 62 USA 7:06.0 RACE
6 Gerald Lawson 62 Winona MN USA 7:06.0 IND
8 Leif Petersen 64 DEN 7:08.5 RACE
9 Peter Francis 61 Denver CO USA 7:09.3 RACE
10 Roger Prowse 65 GBR 7:10.3 RACE

So, for the best of my peers, 1:43 is 2K - 2.

Right now, I am doing about 20K a day of it.

It is now time to up that to 40K.

HR below my anaerobic threshold.

10 MPS, 11 SPI

135 df.

No, given its purposes, this training is not meaningless at all.

It couldn't be more meaningful (for me).

It is just meaningless to you.

For me, it is _very_ comfortable rowing, which speaks volumes about my training (to me), and therefore it is full of meaning (for me).

The first race I will report, I would guess, is a HM.

So, I guess you'll have to wait until then to have this training (by me) to be meaningful to you.

Racing is not an issue for training, and therefore is not an issue for me when I am training rather than racing.

Racing is just a social concern, and therefore is an issue for you, as you regard me.

But I don't care a whit about how you regard me, because it is irrelevant to my training, or anything else, other than you.

The issue for me is relaxing into the cadence, 1:43 @ 29 spm, getting more and more efficient with it, making it a habit, doing it for more and more meters, riding my HR along at my anaerobic threshold, 172 bpm, until doing so for long periods (an hour and a half?) is just an everyday affair.

If you do this with your training, racing (and other social concerns) take care of themselves.

Good training is not a social affair.

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

If I did this next year

More evidence that Ranger is capable of time travel. There are no limits to what he can do.