The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

On Taking from the Top to Broaden the Base

Roll stones down on our head!
You squat old pyramid,
Your last good avalanche
Was long since slid.

Your top has sunk too low,
Your base has spread too wide,
For you to roll one stone
Down if you tried.

But even at the word
A pebble hit the roof,
Another shot through glass
Demanding proof.

Before their panic hands
Were fighting for the latch,
The mud came in one cold
Unleavened batch.

And none was left to prate
Of an old mountain's case
That still took from its top
To broaden its base.

--Robert Frost

[KevJGK]

rangers poem

I was born to erg,
I could break 7 minutes as a child,
I designed the erg,
I don’t care how far 7 minutes took me,
I could beat anybody,
I am a king,
I can speak with the spirits,
Occasionally, I post a time,
I can fly if I want to,
I pay my bets,
I am an expert in investments,
I personally know Elvis,
When I’m bored I troll,
I am often bored,
I once broke a world record,
I know how to speak with animals,
To let off steam I troll,
I have spoken with a giraffe, mainly bragging in his ear,
I am so clever, I have wings,
I never catch a cold,
But I have not yet ….done a 06:16

[NavigationHazard]

Found this unsung ditty on an old hard drive today... I think it's called the "Ballad of John and Yokel":

Sitting in the stands at the Birkeys
Making up my mind not to race
The voice in my brain said, "You must be insane!
You've been training at the wrong kind of pace..."

Christ you know it ain't easy
You know how hard it can be
If I don't row it AT, they're going to crucify me.

Tried out for the team for the Euros
Copenhagen looked a done deal
Concept 2 called to say "Where's your witnessed 2k?
You know you've got to show us something that's real!"

Christ you know it ain't easy
You know how hard it can be
If I can't beat Hastings, they're going to crucify me.

Drove from Michigan to Ohio
Hadn't dined in nearly a week
The Forum folk grinned, "He's a failure again!"
I said "I'm only trying to get down to weight!"

Christ you know it ain't easy
You know how hard it can be
If I can't make lightweight, they're going to crucify me.

Doing endless fartleks on a rainy day, Shedding excess pounds with jumping jacks
Last night they complained, "Ranger what have you gained?
You won't set records if you don't eat meat -- think!"

Claimed I'd beat Van Beuren in Boston
At Indy I ran into a snag
The Forum folk said, "What's gone wrong with his head?
And why's he always changing his drag?"

Christ you know it ain't easy
You know how hard it can be
If my spi's wimpy, they're going to crucify me.

Drove the Interstate back to Detroit
Hurt like I'd been kicked in the sack
The Forumites said, "We all wished you success!
It's good to see that Ranger is back!"

Christ you know it ain't easy
You know how hard it can be
If I can't win hammers, they're going to crucify me.

-- Wobbert Fwost, with Yokel Ohno and the Plastic Ohno Band.

[johnlvs2run]

Even on this you (try) bend the truth.

You just don't like the truth, Henry.

The bet Ranger and I had was very clear

Clear to you. Apparently others don't matter.

I have had bets like this before, and I have lost a won both a few. In those occations the bets always where settled rigt away.

Well you're a betting man, Henry.

We now know huw much your word is worth . Just "banter"

No, I have no use for betting. And that's what it is worth to me... nothing.

That is my "word", see, and I think it's worth more than yours.

[johnlvs2run]

thx Byron, this is indeed the hole story

There is definitely a hole in the story.

[johnlvs2run]

Whether it was legal or not is totally irrelevant.

Well then take it to court, and see if they agree with you.

[mrfit]

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8630 ... graphs.png

OK,

Here are my rowing HR and Power relationships. Note my threshold HR for rowing (170) is lower than cycling, because threshold is trainable AND sports specific and well, I'm a cyclist with quite a bit more time training at threshold levels than I ever have rowing on my erg (used mostly to cross train for cycling in the off season).

Thanks, but it is impossible to interpret unless you include a signature line with your height, weight, age, and pbs for a few races, including 500m and 2K.

It would also help to have the _rate_ you are rowing at for the 6500m.

When you row 2:00 pace or so, your HR is flat at your anaerobic threshold, 170 bpm, and your performance is declining steeply from moment to moment throughout the row, even though you only row 26 minutes?

Yikes.

Don't know _what_ to say about _that_.

Maybe you just have to row some more until you get used to it.

Have you checked your technique?

No matter what age, all the way up to my age, 60 years old, most rowers who are serious athletes can pull 2:00 pace, free rate, with a HR in the 120s.

The best rowers might have no problem rowing all day at 2:00 pace with their HR flat and well below UT2 (for me, 145 bpm).

ranger

When those were rowed 7-8 years ago I was 38-39, weighed 155-165lbs. I'm 5’10. Can’t see what that does to the interpretation, but I’ll comply. That lower graph is my 10k PB (38:38). I sprinted the last 2000m (but I did not graph that part since I wanted to demonstrate steady “high” power over a considerable amount of time and the effect on HR. I rowed a 6:58 2k about that time too. I’m not all that fast (talented for rowing) but neither was I all that serious about the erg. I think I did the 6:58 on 400km of training over two months fall 2002. I used to be good at rowing in college (Our 8 made final heats at Dad Vails in ‘87) and rowed a 6:40 2k "in the day". I rowed a 1:32 500m piece for grins a few years ago.

Regardless, I seem really well suited for cycling. Power to weight is faily good. I weigh just 145 lbs now and churn out power at 270watts for the hour (and more but those races did not have a powermeter). Hey, I’m sure you’re probably more fun in person. I live near the White Mtns. Perhaps on your East Coast trip to NH we can hook up for a ride (I’ve got an extra carbon fiber racing bike). Climbing the Kancamagus Hwy is awesome. We can meet in Lincoln. Not far from your campground. Here's the route and the topography.

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8223/kancamagus.png

[johnlvs2run]

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8630 ... graphs.png

OK,

Here are my rowing HR and Power relationships. Note my threshold HR for rowing (170) is lower than cycling, because threshold is trainable AND sports specific and well, I'm a cyclist with quite a bit more time training at threshold levels than I ever have rowing on my erg (used mostly to cross train for cycling in the off season).

Whew, going right to 170, or 155 in my case, must be a hard way to row/ride.
Have you tried doing this at an even pace with 170 at the end?

Edit: Nevermind, I see you did this and the overall pace was much faster.
Well I obviously favor keeping the pace even and see no advantage to keeping the HR even throughout.

Do you?

[KevJGK]

Whether it was legal or not is totally irrelevant.

Well then take it to court, and see if they agree with you.

It would be a waste of time & money trying to recover a gambling debt through the courts.

Should that make it the end of the matter?

[ranger]

Should that make it the end of the matter?

Heck no.

When I win the bet, I am sure that Henry will pay up.

He was the one who suggested the bet in the first place.

When he turns up wrong, he will just have to face up to his own foolishness--and pay the price.

All nay-sayers are fools.

ranger

[mrfit]

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8630 ... graphs.png

OK,

Here are my rowing HR and Power relationships. Note my threshold HR for rowing (170) is lower than cycling, because threshold is trainable AND sports specific and well, I'm a cyclist with quite a bit more time training at threshold levels than I ever have rowing on my erg (used mostly to cross train for cycling in the off season).

Whew, going right to 170, or 155 in my case, must be a hard way to row/ride.
Have you tried doing this at an even pace with 170 at the end?

Edit: Nevermind, I see you did this and the overall pace was much faster.
Well I obviously favor keeping the pace even and see no advantage to keeping the HR even throughout.

Do you?

I do not (see an advantage either)

[ranger]

I live near the White Mtns. Perhaps on your East Coast trip to NH we can hook up for a ride (I’ve got an extra carbon fiber racing bike). Climbing the Kancamagus Hwy is awesome. We can meet in Lincoln. Not far from your campground. Here's the route and the topography.

Hey, thanks for the invitation. A day of biking would be fun. I accept. Let's stay in touch.

ranger

[ranger]

That lower graph is my 10k PB (38:38)

I'll check it out, but I suspect that my HR would ride steady at about 130 bpm during a 10K @ 1:56 on the erg.

I suppose I would want to do it at about 19 spm.

My anaerobic threshold, top-end UT1, is 172 bpm.

Top-end UT2 is 145 bpm.

When I race 10K, I'll want to rate 30 spm, if I am going to rate 29 spm for 60min, 28 spm for a HM, and 26 spm for a FM.

What did you rate when you did your 10K pb?

ranger

[BrianStaff]

hey ranger...pay up - you slimey turd.

You are such a disgrace to mankind - you'd better hope your family never finds this thread

[mikvan52]

Whether it was legal or not is totally irrelevant.

Well then take it to court, and see if they agree with you.

Let's drop this line of repartee..
Agreement would necessitate that we all be gentlemen.
Gentlemen do not not need courts to resolve outcomes of clearly stated wagers.