The Two Types of Training

[mrfit]

Like my earlier posting tonight, here's a new graph of my threshold HR and Watts using Excel. The data plotted really begins about 10 minutes into the event (wheels rolling). The first five minutes, I'm not in motion but the clock on the device has started. The next five minutes, the HR is getting settled.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4999 ... dpower.jpg

Takeaway: Threshold HR is no way to handle events over 30 minutes.

[johnlvs2run]

here's a new graph of my threshold HR and Watts using Excel.

Thanks for sharing the graph.

Why not just keep an even pace through the distance.

[Nosmo]

You are quite an exceptional fellow.

I hope not. I made it clear at the time I would pay him back.

However, Rich did not borrow any money. He was bantering on a message board and many people said many things. In fact I recall Henry making bets with Rich where there was no time limit involved, which means Rich would have the rest of his life, or even all of eternity, to fulfill his side of the bet, but if he completed the condition would "win" the prize immediately. That is my recollection of the bet, or at least one of the bets. Anyway I think it is strange that anyone would get so heated about internet bantering which is rather meaningless.

There was a time limit on the original bet. That was quite clear. The chance to win the money back has no time limit. As far as I can tell, everyone thought the bet was serious and not just banter at the time. I don't think I was alone in my impression that both Ranger and Henry had a fair amount of money and that they both could afford it.
But you are right that we all were exceptionally naive in thinking that ranger would pay.

There have been people who have borrowed things from me and promptly disappeared. It is the rare occasion when someone does return what they've borrowed. Thus I figure that if/when I load someone something, it is gone, and therefore if I wish to give something to someone then I do, but I do not loan anyone anything.

Yes, but do you return thing you borrow?

[johnlvs2run]

In fact I recall Henry making bets with Rich where there was no time limit involved, which means Rich would have the rest of his life, or even all of eternity, to fulfill his side of the bet

There was a time limit on the original bet. That was quite clear. The chance to win the money back has no time limit.

I specifically remember Henry making a bet with no time limit and commented about it at the time, that Rich would have forever to meet the conditions of the wager.

Yes, but do you return thing you borrow?

Your question is inane.

Live for today, not yesterday or tomorrow. The past is gone. Let go of it and move on.

Rich did not borrow anything. Who cares. There are more important things to be concerned with.

[hjs]

Within a 16 months I had it paid off despite being unemployed for a substantial amount of time. This is what honest people do. They don't use the excuse that their wife won't let them (as he did). Ranger could have easily paid it off by now and I really doubt he would have even noticed.

You are quite an exceptional fellow.

However, Rich did not borrow any money. He was bantering on a message board and many people said many things. In fact I recall Henry making bets with Rich where there was no time limit involved, which means Rich would have the rest of his life, or even all of eternity, to fulfill his side of the bet, but if he completed the condition would "win" the prize immediately. That is my recollection of the bet, or at least one of the bets. Anyway I think it is strange that anyone would get so heated about internet bantering which is rather meaningless.

There have been people who have borrowed things from me and promptly disappeared. It is the rare occasion when someone does return what they've borrowed. Thus I figure that if/when I load someone something, it is gone, and therefore if I wish to give something to someone then I do, but I do not loan anyone anything.

Even on this you (try) bend the truth.

The bet Ranger and I had was very clear and certainly no banter. It also had a very clear time span. Last season, so untill may 1 2009.
I have had bets like this before, and I have lost a won both a few. In those occations the bets always where settled rigt away.

We now know huw much your word is worth . Just "banter"

[hjs]

The bet occurred at the UK forum so you might have missed it. The original bet was that if Ranger could perform one of his stated goals by April 30, 2009 at a race or at home with code verification then Henry would pay him $3000. However the other part of the bet was that Ranger had to do a 2K at below 6:40 before April 30, 2009 at midnight and if he couldn't do that then he would have to pay Henry $1000. Ranger got close but couldn't manage lower than 6:41. After Ranger lost the bet Henry demanded payment. Henry said that he would extend the deadline for Ranger meeting his stated goals (6:16 2K, FM@1:48, etc.) as a lightweight forever but in the meantime he wanted his $1000. Here are some of the posting from the UK forum:

Apr 02, 2009 Byron Drachman wrote:Then you will have no problem sending Henry a check for $1000 unless you verify your weight as a lightweight in a manner suitable to Henry and post a sub 6:40 2K with verification code before the end of this month.

Indeed I will.
Just as he will have no problem sending me $3000 when I win both the bets.
We are upstanding folks.
We pay our bets, if we lose.

April 30, 2009:
Yea, time has run out.
Oh well.
Don't much feel like doing a 2K, given that I still haven't sharpened for one.
2Ks hurt pretty badly if you aren't ready for them.
Hey, hjs, any possibility of modifying our $1000 bet along the lines of our $3000 bet?
A time extension would be _greatly_ appreciated.
That might be a squarer deal, given my situation (unprepared!).
I need to get sharpened up if I want to be doing 2Ks without a lot of grief.
Training is coming along great--but slowly.
Too slowly, it appears.
One last cry for mercy!

April 30, 2009: No one has to pay anyone anytthing until 11:59 p.m. Central Time, the end of my April.
It's only 9:45 A.M. right now.

April 30, 2009: hjs is an ogre
no sympathy
no heart

May 5, 2009: I am doing trials at the other distances this spring and summer.
If I can't reach my goals in those trials, then I'll pay up for the bet I lost.

Feb 17, 2010: Hey, Henry. I will send you the $1000 I owe you from the prize money I will win from the Chicago organizers when I break the 55s lwt WR this weekend in Cleveland.--snip--

Feb 17, 2010:
ranger wrote:
Hey, Henry.
I will send you the $1000 I owe you from the prize money I will win from the Chicago organizers when I break the 55s lwt WR this weekend in Cleveland.
I won't receive the money until March, though.
Of course, given that I am sending you the $1000 for the part of the bet that I lost last year, if I reach one of my targets this year, you will owe me a full $3000 in return.
As it looks now, I think I will reach _all_ of my targets, not just one, or a few.
Wish me luck!
ranger
The bet was clear Rich.

Last was year was about that 1000$, if you rowed any of your stated goals, I would have lost and you had won the double amount, If you broke a lightweight 6.40 but stayed above your own 2k goal it was a breakeven.
That was the 6.16/6.40 zone
The result was close but also clear 6.41, so I won, you owe me that 1000 $, Chicago has nothing to do with it.............
See: http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9742&start=0
The other bet was not a bet, but more a promise from my side and it was not about this year, but I gave you the change to row any of your stated goals in your profile, at any point in your life, the ones pointing to a 6.16 2k.
No time restictions.
clear proof of your weight status.
and clear proof of the row.
So the situation is clear, you owe me that 1000 dollar, but after you have settled that bet, you can win that back 3 fold.
Good luck with your row, the WR is possible for you, but it is also still far from your goals. Those are without a doubt unreachable. And not only for you but for every man your size and age.
So if you choose to pay your debt PM me.

thx Byron, this is indeed the hole story

[KevJGK]

Rich did not borrow anything. Who cares.

I care.

You seem to have limited knowledge of the bet so it’s probably best to keep out of it.

Whether it was legal or not is totally irrelevant.

If you bet somebody $1,000 and lose you pay up.

[hjs]

Rich did not borrow anything. Who cares.

I care.

You seem to have limited knowledge of the bet so it’s probably best to keep out of it.

Whether it was legal or not is totally irrelevant.

If you bet somebody $1,000 and lose you pay up.

Kev, he knows very well but is simply a dishonest little minded lonely man. He only "remembers" what fits in his lane.
The bet was kristalclear, just like rangers bet with rocket was. He hasn,t settled that one either.

[ranger]

The bet was kristalclear, just like rangers bet with rocket was.

Yes, my bet with Rocket was indeed clear.

The bet was whether I would weigh more or less than 158 lbs. when I weighed in for WIRC 2009 in Boston.

The Wednesday before WIRC, I was 159 lbs.

Due to snow, on Saturday, in Chicago, my plane didn't fly to Boston and I was stranded for the night and couldn't make it to Boston for the weigh-in and race on Sunday morning.

So what is the outcome of the bet?

Was I more or less than 158 lbs. at the weigh-in in Boston?

What evidence is there on either side?

(1) I wasn't at the weigh-in. Therefore, there is no way to determine whether I was more or less than 158 lbs. in Boston at the weigh-in.

(2) This absence was not my fault. The planes didn't fly.

Therefore, the conditions for the bet were not met.

Was I more than 158 lbs. at the weigh-in?

Or was I less?

There is no evidence on either side.

ranger

[hjs]

The bet was kristalclear, just like rangers bet with rocket was.

Yes, my bet with Rocket was indeed clear.

The bet was whether I would weigh more or less than 158 lbs. when I weighed in for WIRC 2009 in Boston.

The Wednesday before WIRC, I was 159 lbs.

Due to snow, on Saturday, in Chicago, my plane didn't fly to Boston and I was stranded for the night and couldn't make it to Boston for the weigh-in and race on Sunday morning.

So what is the outcome of the bet?
ranger

The bet was that you would not weigh in as a lightweight. You did not do s, so you lost.

Just like you lost that other bet. You did not reach any of your targets last season so you did not win that half of the bet.
And you did not pull a sub 6.40.0, so this half you also lost.

all is kristalclear.

[ranger]

The bet was that you would not weigh in as a lightweight.

Dang, you're _really_ a senile s.o.b.

Memory like a sieve.

No one in their right mind would make _that_ bet.

I made weight at all of my venues this year--no problem.

I made weight at 161 lbs. at one of them.

In the bet that I made, the burden was all on me.

I had never weighed in at 158 lbs.

So, being smart (rather than dumb like you), Roy took the bet.

ranger

[ranger]

The bet was that you would not weigh in as a lightweight.

So I weighed in as a heavyweight?

The bet you state above presupposes that I weigh in.

ranger

[ranger]

Gorgeous distance stroke now, 1:43 @ 29 spm (10 MPS, 11 SPI).

At 135 df., I get great compression at the catch.

The wheels on my seat are coming six inches from front stops on each stroke.

The chain feels _very_ light.

I am curled way up on my toes at the catch and therefore can get a big push with my toes and balls of my feet before the big leg extension.

110 kg. peak pressure.

HR well under my anaerobic threshold.

Because of my quick finishes and recoveries, the rate doesn't feel high at all, even though it is 29 spm.

_Very_ relaxed.

1:43 @ 29 spm is right on my target for 60min and right in the middle of my other distance targets.

All I have to do is keep the 11 SPI and raise the rate 3 spm to do a 5K, lower the rate 3 spm to do a FM.

No more slow, low rate rowing for me--ever!

No need.

For all of my distance sessions, I can just climb on the rower and row 1:43 @ 29 spm, driving up to 32 spm from time to time to test the engines and drive my HR over my anaerobic threshold, then relax down to 26 spm and low UT1 to take a breather.

Great distance rowing for a 60s lwt.

Unprecedented.

1:43 is my former pb 5K pace and is 15 seconds (1.5 seconds per 500m) faster than any 60s lwt has ever rowed 5K.

I think I am going to do it for 60min.

60min is done at 5K + 4.

The 60s lwt WR for 60min is 1:52/16K.

So 1:43 tops that by 9 seconds per 500m.



1:43 for 60min would break the Open lwt WR for 60min and the 50s hwt WR for 60min, all in one swoop.

It would best Freed by 300m (two seconds per 500m).

ranger

[ranger]

Like my earlier posting tonight, here's a new graph of my threshold HR and Watts using Excel. The data plotted really begins about 10 minutes into the event (wheels rolling). The first five minutes, I'm not in motion but the clock on the device has started. The next five minutes, the HR is getting settled.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4999 ... dpower.jpg

Takeaway: Threshold HR is no way to handle events over 30 minutes.

Fine.

But this isn't a biking forum.

This is a rowing forum.

What does a similar chart look like for your rowing?

What wattage/pace do you pull for 60min on the erg with your HR below your anaerobic threshold and the pace constant?

I am trying to do 1:43/320 watts.

You also don't include a signature like with your pbs on the erg.

What you pull for 2K and 5K on the erg?

And what is your age and weight?

Please add a signature line to your posts with this information.

ranger

[JimR]

... Dang, you're _really_ a senile s.o.b. ... Memory like a sieve ...

Too funny.

The context was that Roy argued you would not weigh-in as an LWT. The burden was on you to be at the venue, weigh in and be a LWT. You didn't.

Roy was right.

I doubt Roy ever thought you would honor a bet ... hjs should probably not expect you to honor a bet you lost either.

But pretending there is a bet and hjs should honor it even when you haven't tells much about you.

JimR