The Two Types of Training

[jliddil]

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9918/steady.jpg


Here's a shot of steady power and steady HR over an hour of cycling. This is the highest power (250 watts) and HR (163 avg when up to speed) combination I have on record where both are stable. But...it's not threshold HR. It's a comfortable 17 beats lower. Or at least I believe so.

It's an interesting investigation into "how this all works" which, for me personally, helps plan my training milestones in the "arc" of progress toward my racing goal (State TT champion 45-54 age group).

Sorry to be a scientist but these are not constant. the lines are not perfectly horizontal. Also this is a single measurement. No stats, no error bars, no p value. The "trend" is toward a somewhat steady state. We have no idea of the sampling rate.

[JimR]

With some of the money that I am inheriting from my mother, I'll be buying a new FluidDesign "el".

So ... enough money to buy a new toy but still you won't pay your debt to hjs ($1000) or Roy ($20) ... unforgivable.

JimR

[mikvan52]

Ranger Ranking Countdown:



"Missions" Accomplished: 1

[nycbone]

Sorry to be a scientist but these are not constant. the lines are not perfectly horizontal. Also this is a single measurement. No stats, no error bars, no p value. The "trend" is toward a somewhat steady state. We have no idea of the sampling rate.

It two sets of repeated measurements over time.

One would not expect to error bars with sample size, n = 1.

Were the lines generated by the computer or drawn by hand (mouse)?

Assuming that the blue lines are regressions on each data set, there are accompanying R-squared and p values indicating how well each set of points fits the line. Does the software report those values?

Biology is messy, so trends are often very important.

[mikvan52]

I'd like to add that you don't have any 55-59 record on the C2 log of ever having rowed 5k and beyond as a lwt. Why is that?

I've never done the distance races as a 55s lwt.

I did 1:43 for 5K when I was 53, a complete novice, and didn't know how to row.

But since then, I have been working on getting better, rather than racing (i.e., showing how good I am, over and over, without getting any better, or most likely, getting worse).

Mission Accomplished.

I think I'll now pull 1:39/16:30 for 5K.

I'll pull 1:43/17.5K for 60min.

RICH: Do you think there is one person left on planet C2 who doesn't know what you did way back when..
and... that you been working on getting better... ? and that you "think" you do (whatever)

What is your 5k time now?.. w/o sharpening; w/o distance (blah-blah-blah)

Is there one person left who cares about "2003" and your records which have since fallen?...(opening the door for a John Rupp comment )

BTW: I believe you will get the 2k record next winter for 60-65 lwt men (current held by Brian Bailey). I also believe that you are unable to get records at longer C2 distances of 5k and beyond because of your 'glory-weight' nature.

You have what it takes for 6-7 minutes on the erg... not 17-18 minutes... There's no shame in that. Look at the rest of mankind.. People do not get records from 500m to the Marathon... (Steve Geary is a great example.. He's currrently unbeatable at 500m but look at 10 times that distance..... hmmmm) At least he's forthright enough to post his best 5k time this year.

I'll ask it 'til I'm blue in the face: "Rich: What's your best 5k time this year?" (or 10k... or 1/2 marathon... or 6k)
Has RWB carried you to that distance yet without a handle down?

[NavigationHazard]

Sorry to be a scientist but these are not constant. the lines are not perfectly horizontal. Also this is a single measurement. No stats, no error bars, no p value. The "trend" is toward a somewhat steady state. We have no idea of the sampling rate.

It two sets of repeated measurements over time.

One would not expect to error bars with sample size, n = 1.

Were the lines generated by the computer or drawn by hand (mouse)?

Assuming that the blue lines are regressions on each data set, there are accompanying R-squared and p values indicating how well each set of points fits the line. Does the software report those values?

Biology is messy, so trends are often very important.

I should think the horizontal blue lines are simply averages.

[nycbone]

I should think the horizontal blue lines are simply averages.

The points on the original curves could be averaged over some time interval. A regression would be an accurate (and easy) method for obtaining the best fit line over the entire data set. The software also knew to exclude the heart rate data prior to approximating steady-state. Does the software provide the raw data as well?

[ranger]

ICH: Do you think there is one person left on planet C2 who doesn't know what you did way back when..
and... that you been working on getting better... ? and that you "think" you do (whatever)

What is your 5k time now?

What is yours?

You haven't logged a 5K this year, either.

Who cares what you did _last_ year?

It looks as though 17:34 is the time to beat.

Let's see what you can do.

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 5000m | Men's | Lightweight | Ages 50-59 | Current 2010 Season

1 Greg Trahar 51 GBR 17:34.4 RACE
Mouss Hammachi 51 LE PERREUX S/M FRA 17:49.1 IND
David Hislop 53 Castle Kennedy GBR 17:55.5 IND
2 Steven Geary 52 Bluff South Island NZL 17:55.7 IND
3 Peter Wheddon 53 Bristol GBR 18:09.8 IND
4 Michael van der Linden 51 Mt Gambier SA AUS 18:16.1 IND_V
5 Mike Hagen 53 Burnaby BC CAN 18:27.8 IND
6 Brian Corbett 52 Cambridge GBR 18:30.1 IND
7 Bob Willis 59 Longmeadow Ma USA 18:30.6 IND
8 Peter Schuhn 50 Saarlouis GER 18:37.8 IND
9 David goldhawk 51 fife GBR 18:38.2 IND
10 Kevin Seeker 54 Scottsdale AZ USA 18:42.0 IND

ranger

[mikvan52]

1:43 is my 60min target ...

1:43 for 60min predicts 1:34 for 2K.

6:16

(snip)
It will be exciting if I can hold the 1:43 for 60min.



ranger

This quote epitomizes classic ranger reasoning: "A target predicts!"
I look for this kind of statement everyday: It's my daily antidote to reality
" See that bulls-eye over yonder? If I can hit it with my bow and arrow it will predict that I can hit another one even farther away" "I think I will try to hit it. And, if you somehow failed to hear me say this one thousand times, I'll say it again tomorrow"


NB: I do not mean to suggest that ranger is a clown. He's the horn on the handle bars.

BTW: 1:43 for an hour is 8 seconds per 500m (7.2%) faster than the current 55-59 lwt hour record ...
And we all know that records are broken by 7% and more all the time, especially by older folks!

[ranger]

BTW: I believe you will get the 2k record next winter for 60-65 lwt men (current held by Brian Bailey). I also believe that you are unable to get records at longer C2 distances of 5k and beyond because of your 'glory-weight' nature.

Well...

If all goes well, I'll blow the 55s lwt 2K WR away this fall--and with a time below the 50s lwt WR, too, perhaps even the 40s.

If I do 16:40 for 5K, it won't matter what my weight is.

For this year, it will be the best veteran 5K--period--by quite a margin (11 seconds).

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 5000m | Men's | Heavyweight | Ages 50-59 | Current 2010 Season

1 Steve Krum 54 Manhattan Beach CA USA 16:51.5 IND_V
2 James Crawford 55 Manhasset NY USA 16:58.0 C2Log
3 Richard Cheeseman 51 Croydon Sub7 IRC GBR 17:03.5 C2Log
4 Skip Donnelly 50 Warwick RI - Age Without Limits USA 17:04.9 IND
5 Dave Gray 50 APO AE USA 17:06.0 IND
6 Richard Cheeseman 51 GBR 17:08.9 RACE
7 Jørgen Bloch 50 Brøndby Free Spirits DEN 17:13.4 C2Log
8 Tom Carpenter 50 Kingston ON CAN 17:16.0 IND
9 ola hjorth 52 oslo NOR 17:20.0 IND
10 Frank Kuerzel 50 Darmstadt GER 17:20.5 IND

In my training, I'm just doing a lot of 10 MPS stroke rowing now, 1:43 @ 29 spm, keeping my HR flatter and flatter for longer and longer.

In the end, I think I'll do 1:43 @ 29 spm for a HM.

It's getting to be _very_ comfortable stuff.

ranger

[mikvan52]

IF:


THEN:


FOLLOWED BY:


Let the dream come true, beep-beep!

[johnlvs2run]

Ranger Ranking Countdown:

26 days down
23 days to go
"Missions" Accomplished: 1
Ranking Distances Rows: 0

I'm excited to see these. Maybe Rich is planning to do them the last 9 days of the month.

[PaulH]

Ranger Ranking Countdown:

26 days down
23 days to go
"Missions" Accomplished: 1
Ranking Distances Rows: 0

I'm excited to see these. Maybe Rich is planning to do them the last 9 days of the month.

I'd have thought the last 10 days - hard to imagine him leaving that 2k time alone after 9 other successes!

[ranger]

BTW: 1:43 for an hour is 8 seconds per 500m (7.2%) faster than the current 55-59 lwt hour record

There are no such things as 55s records for any of the races but 2K.

The rankings for the events other than 2K are just done in decades.

Heck, there weren't even 55s 2K WRs until just recently.

ranger

[nysaag]

Ranger Ranking Countdown:

26 days down
23 days to go
"Missions" Accomplished: 1
Ranking Distances Rows: 0

I'm excited to see these. Maybe Rich is planning to do them the last 9 days of the month.

And, just maybe he is planning to pay his debts.