The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

Frothing and killing fish doesn't win the race; boat speed and handling does.

Sure, but several points are relevant.

(1) I am not just frothing and killing fish, although I certainly still have lots to learn. 2:10 @ 26 spm for daily rowing is fine for someone of my age and experience, at least for the moment.

(2) For various obvious reasons, it appears that very few 60s rowers have much boat speed. Sure, some do, but many of those can't rate up, for physiological reasons, and so don't.

(3) Yes, you can indeed go faster by rating up, if you can tolerate the physical stress.

(4) I am getting better and better at gaining more boatspeed and experience with handling. I have the rest of my life to get better and better at it. My expectations at the moment are not high at all.

All of these things are positive.

ranger

[ranger]

Rich, just rating doesn't work.

The erg measures how hard you pull, and that's fine.
The boat measures how hard you pull, how well you pull, and how much you stop the boat.
There's heaps of ways to do that. Your erg stroke will lead to almost all of them.

You could rate your age with that stroke and your opposition would still beat you.
Seriously: get some OTW coaching.

You don't have any idea how I row OTW right now.

What stroke are you talking about?

If I am doing 2:10 @ 26 spm, clearly, I am not stopping the boat or pulling poorly, given my age and experience.

ranger

[ranger]

I was _very_ pleased with my first outing OTW this year.
Everything felt great.
I was holding a nice 2:10 @ 26 SPM.

From the Ann Arbor News, April 6, 2010:

There was a mysterious fish kill on the Huron River this morning. Sergeant H. Mackerel of the Department of Natural Resources reported that the fish appeared to have died from blunt force trauma. There was also serious erosion along the shores caused by rogue waves. Several eyewitnesses reported someone or something thrashing about in a boat, violently bouncing up and down, creating huge splashes. The investigation is continuing.

Don't think so, Byron.

You'll be surprised.

You haven't seen a clip of my OTW rowing in two years.

Pretty different now--more compression at the catch, quicker legs, more upright posture, quicker at the finish, different rhythmic integration of the stroke, looser grip, lower hands on the recovery, cleaner blade work, etc.

ranger

[Citroen]

I am right on schedule to do 4 x 2K @ 32 spm (1:38).

WTF is wrong with you????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Try this http://www.c2forum.com/search.php?autho ... 0&sr=posts
That will give you some comments on the mental condition that appears to afflict Mr Cureton.

[mikvan52]

(?) don't have any idea how I row OTW right now.


If I am doing 2:10 @ 26 spm, clearly, I am not stopping the boat or pulling poorly, given my age and experience.

Hey Rich:
This 2:10 pace the other day? Roughly, how long did you maintain that pace at 26 spm?

I don't have any idea how fast you are these days and would like to know.

Thanks!

[ranger]

The erg measures how hard you pull

Not sure about that at all.

Sure, effectiveness is important, but so is efficiency.

Adjusted for weight, the best OTW rowers are also the best ergers.

Physical capacity is just as important OTW as on the erg.

OTW and erg times both decline in a similar way with age, where boatspeed (vs. ergspeed) and handling is held constant.

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

(?) don't have any idea how I row OTW right now.


If I am doing 2:10 @ 26 spm, clearly, I am not stopping the boat or pulling poorly, given my age and experience.

Hey Rich:
This 2:10 pace the other day? Roughly, how long did you maintain that pace at 26 spm?

I don't have any idea how fast you are these days and would like to know.

Thanks!

It would be interesting to know if the reading, assuming it actually is displayed, is from his Forerunner or his uncalibrated Speed Coach.

Cue to Ranger: The Speed Coach is fine. It doesn't need calibration.

[chgoss]

I will never forget my first bicycle race (Cat IV, that was back when they didnt have Cat V), I had had my bike computer for a while, figured I was doing pretty good on my average mph (riding for a couple hours, extremely hilly (Catskills in NY) at 20/21 mph.

So, I entered my first race.
I remember unloading my bike from the car, looking at the skinny kid unloading next to me. I'm talking SKINNY man, his lycra shorts were bagging off him. I'm thinking "at least I'll beat one guy"..

Lined up, lots of hairy legs in the group, couple overweight girls.. My nervousness started to subside.

BANG: off we go.. I'm thinking, "Why are they hammering so hard right at the start?" ok, they are trying to shed the newbies.. I hung on like grim death in the middle of the pack.. Didnt dare turn around to see how many posers we were shedding, cause I had never ridden in a pack before.

Hit the first hill, they are STILL hammering!!, what the heck! I'm red lined, people start passing me on the right and left. "Man, that overweight girl is fit!", she goes right by me..

After a bit, the traffic starts to subside, no one passing me any more. I'm thinking "OK, this is ok, just hang in with teh rest of the folks, and we'll chase back on the descent".
Since no one was around me, I had the courage to look over my shoulder quickly to see how many folks I would be chasing with..

empty road... DFL

After MANY races, I started to get to the point where I could hang in there and finish with the pack.

Rich: lesson for you is this, it aint going to be what you expect the first time


oh, BTW, the skinny kid? he won... broke away and solo'd to the finish

[johnlvs2run]

Try this http://www.c2forum.com/search.php?autho ... 0&sr=posts
That will give you some comments on the mental condition that appears to afflict Mr Cureton.

Bove is Cureton?

[Citroen]

Try this http://www.c2forum.com/search.php?autho ... 0&sr=posts
That will give you some comments on the mental condition that appears to afflict Mr Cureton.

Bove is Cureton?

Er, no!

[ranger]

This 2:10 pace the other day? Roughly, how long did you maintain that pace at 26 spm?

Nothing special, just my first day out.

I just went 6K in all.

Nonetheless, I am now rowing easily and freely at 26 spm with no more difficulty than doing 26 spm on the erg.

I will try to press that up to 30 spm and beyond as time goes on over the next couple of months, as I have been doing on the erg.

Nonetheless, this is about where I am in terms of catching water or not.

Hey, I know it is nothing like what you can do in terms of distance per stroke, but it is a start.

I suspect I'll make good progress again this year, as I did last year.

I'm sure I will catch a little more water each time I go out.

I'll give my hands a little time to get used to it, but I would like to do 20K rows OTW each day this year, three 6.5K loops.

My fitness is sky-high.

I did the OTW rowing after a pretty hard 20K on the erg.

ranger

[ranger]

I will never forget my first bicycle race

Who is racing anywhere at all OTW?

Not me.

I am still just learning to row OTW.

Given that, I am doing fine.

On the erg, I was four seconds under the 50s lwt WR in my first race.

Was that your experience, too?

You pulled 5:55 for 2K?

If so. then sure, our experience should be much the same in these things.

If not, well, then probably not.

ranger

[mikvan52]

I am now rowing easily and freely at 26 spm with no more difficulty than doing 26 spm on the erg.

I will try to press that up to 30 spm and beyond as time goes on over the next couple of months, as I have been doing on the erg.

Nonetheless, this is about where I am in terms of catching water or not.

(snip)
I'm sure I will catch a little more water each time I go out.
(snip)

You're clearly more gifted than me! 26 spm in a single feels harder than 26 spm on the erg Of course my drag on the erg is only 100 and I spend so many of my erg meters on slides.

Today, OTW, I could only get it up to 23 spm for 1k. I did, however maintain a 1:57 average.
Do you think there's something wrong with me? Poor aerobic capacity or something dire like that?

6 minutes of steady state later I thought to myself "What would ranger do in this situation? Ah yes! rate it up!" So I did a 2:00 piece at 1:52 pace and 28 spm. All this was after 10 k of warm up steady state.

If you don't mind sharing: Would you measure and report the length of your oars and the length of the inboard (button to the end of the handle)? I'm wondering if your load is different than mine. I row with C2 Fat-Smoothie 2's with the vortex edge... How about you?

Also: When you say “catching water”: Do you mean getting stroke length?

[NavigationHazard]

Mike, I think he's using these:



As for "catching water," I think it's a Culinary Academy synonym for "beat the egg whites until they form stiff peaks."

[Nosmo]

If you don't mind sharing: Would you measure and report the length of your oars and the length of the inboard (button to the end of the handle)? I'm wondering if your load is different than mine. I row with C2 Fat-Smoothie 2's with the vortex edge

don't forget span