The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

I don't know where this is coming from, and I didn't expect it, but today, my distance rowing pushed up to 32 spm.

Yikes.

That's amazing.

I go 1:38 when I am rating 32 spm.

1:34 @ 37 spm is also feeling as comfortable as can be.

Both of these are right around 11.5 SPI, which is perfect.

So my distance training has now come to a natural plateau.

These two rates and paces will prepare me maximally for all the distance races: 5K, 6K, 30min, 10K, 60min, HM, FM.

For the moment at least, no need to go any faster or rate any higher.

The race pace 500s at 37 spm will prepare me maximally for 5K and 6K.

The distance rowing at 32 spm will prepare me maximally for the longer rows.

Then when I am done with distance trials, I will need to raise the rate to 40 spm on my 500s and do 8 x 500m @ 1:31.

At this stage, I will also need to do 4 x 1K @ 37 spm and 4 x 2K @ 32 spm.

Then I will be ready to race 2K and hit my 2K target.

I'll race at 37 spm.

ranger

[ranger]

What would an elite young 2x rate in a 1K?

ranger

[ranger]

Hey.

What's up, Mike?

It doesn't look like these guys are rating 26 spm.

And they are going 2K, no?

Not 1K?

40 spm?

Higher?

Yikes.

The start looks like 60 spm.

Are they rating 50 spm through the center of the race?

Quicksdraw on those recoveries, huh?

Gasp.

HR at 200 bpm.

Gasp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjQ7qoys3O0

Wow.

There's that 1:31 500m.

OTW!

ranger

[snowleopard]

The start looks like 60 spm.

It's 40 off the start. How many fingers does a troll have?

[ranger]

The start looks like 60 spm.

It's 40 off the start. How many fingers does a troll have?

Dang.

Looked faster than that.

I'll get my metronome and check it out.

ranger

[ranger]

The start looks like 60 spm.

It's 40 off the start. How many fingers does a troll have?

Nope.

By my metronome, it's 50 spm at the start.

ranger

[snowleopard]

The start looks like 60 spm.

It's 40 off the start. How many fingers does a troll have?

Dang.

Looked faster than that.

I'll get my metronome and check it out.

Count the strokes in the first 30 seconds of the clip

It's closer to 40/2. And in case you haven't worked it out, even 50 is less than 60

[ranger]

Mike--

In a 1K, and in a 2x rather than a 1x, I think we could rate at least 40 spm.

What do you think?

We'll have to try it when I come out East in June.

Are there 2x's around that we could use?

Actually, I'd like to buy one for my cottage in Door County, WI.

Perhaps I can do that before you visit next summer.

If I had a 2x up there, we could have a blast.

There's a lot of big water--which, more often that you'd think, is like glass.

Evenings are often especially nice.

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

The start looks like 60 spm.

It's 40 off the start. How many fingers does a troll have?

I agree with snowleopard. Around 40 or a little less is what I get using my cadence watch. They settle into the mid 30's during the middle, obviously at a lower rate than the others near them.

[JimR]

Mike--

In a 1K, and in a 2x rather than a 1x, I think we could rate at least 40 spm.

What do you think? ...

I believe Mike's response to one of your more hilarious observations on OTW rowing was to rescind his 2x offer ... something about your boat-stopping abilities.

It is in this thread ... but since you actually ignore what everyone else is posting you probably missed it.

JimR

[mrfit]

Ranger's Ranking distance countdown:
Days down: 23
Days to go: 26
Rows ranked: 0

[Rockin Roland]

At 40 spm the time taken for the recovery should equal the time taken for each stroke. Whereas at a lowly 18 spm the recovery is about 2.5 times that of the stroke.

However Ranger would need to rate 40 spm to keep up with a good sculler rating 18 spm of the same age and weight.
That's because Ranger would be missing water at the catch and washing out at the finish ending up with a rather short stroke through the water. He wouldn't have the skills to get lots of length through the water at a rate of 40 spm.

On the erg I would imagine Ranger would row the same short ineffective strokes. Bad erg habits almost always transfer to the boat. Ranger would be uncoachable on the water because he only listens to himself. So why would anyone want to row in a double scull with somebody like that.

[leadville]

rangerboy - you dope, AT is measured w pulse but occurs at the muscular level, and more specifically at the cellular level. It is NOT POSSIBLE to do 20 500s at a HR that peaks at AT at the end of each with a 500m paddle and still produce any splits worthy of considering as a basis for a 2k because the muscle cells will run out of glycogen and ATP, won't get enough O2, and will have a very difficult time processing the excess lactate produced during the previous interval.

Subsequent to the initial 500, the heart rate response will drive the HR up much faster, and that, combined with muscular exhaustion, will result in a continuous decrease in wattage after the first few 500s 'at AT'.

How is it possible for you to be so incredibly ignorant? Do you practice it? Or are you not capable of learning basic exercise physiology?

There is no such thing as AT, so you're blabbing on about a concept that doesn't exist.

perhaps in your mind that's the case, but in minds of those who actually understand exercise physiology, AT does exist. If you want to make a statement like that, you'd better have a lot of evidence to back it up. Until you do, don't embarass yourself.

[leadville]

Citroen - i'm outta here.

ranger suffers from many tragic conditions, most of all the dread incurable moron disease, and none of us are going to solve his problems. And after Rupp's idiotic comments about vaccines and AT, the pointlessness of this discussion has reached epic levels.

[NavigationHazard]

I respectfully disagree about how epically silly things are right now. One of the parties in question once argued that it's easier to run 10k races and to erg at altitude (thinner air = less resistance to athlete's motion). He failed to acknowledge that performance actually suffers since there's less available oxygen at altitude. That argument was far sillier.

As for the LW2x race from the Athens Olympics, here's factual data from Kleshnev:



Note r42-42.5 off the start, r35-39 in the middle depending on boat, and trading rate for pace as the finish approached. Note also that the gold went to the Poles, who averaged a whopping 3.8 spm less than the second-place French. According to Kleshnev's analysis, gold medallists at Athens averaged about 1 spm lower than silver medallists, who themselves were about 1 spm lower than bronze winners. Clearly rating higher than your competition does not ipso facto guarantee beating it.