The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

MIke--

Hey, here we are.

We'll look just like this at Nationals, no?



ranger

[JohnBove]

I AGREE that ranger and I are silly old men.

No, Cureton is an intensely disagreeable and unpleasant narcissist, a very sorry and pathetic man. And he is a liar. I have no idea what's up with you. You're embarrassing yourself debating with this clown and don't seem to realize it.

[leadville]

BTW, a great training game that I am starting to play now, and will be playing from now on until WIRC 2011, is what might be called "aerobic 500s."
In a 2K, I think most of us would like to stay aerobic for about 500m.
So, if you wear a heart rate monitor and do 500s, a nice pace to find for training is just the pace that lets you get to the end of a 500m interval when your HR reaches your anaerobic threshold.
If you are careful not to go over your anaerobic threshold and you take pretty generous rest (e.g., paddle a 500m in between), you should be able to do these 500s for an hour and a half--20 x 500m.
This session is a good litmus test for your race pace, I think.
ranger

rangerboy - you dope, AT is measured w pulse but occurs at the muscular level, and more specifically at the cellular level. It is NOT POSSIBLE to do 20 500s at a HR that peaks at AT at the end of each with a 500m paddle and still produce any splits worthy of considering as a basis for a 2k because the muscle cells will run out of glycogen and ATP, won't get enough O2, and will have a very difficult time processing the excess lactate produced during the previous interval.

Subsequent to the initial 500, the heart rate response will drive the HR up much faster, and that, combined with muscular exhaustion, will result in a continuous decrease in wattage after the first few 500s 'at AT'.

How is it possible for you to be so incredibly ignorant? Do you practice it? Or are you not capable of learning basic exercise physiology?

[johnlvs2run]

rangerboy - you dope, AT is measured w pulse but occurs at the muscular level, and more specifically at the cellular level. It is NOT POSSIBLE to do 20 500s at a HR that peaks at AT at the end of each with a 500m paddle and still produce any splits worthy of considering as a basis for a 2k because the muscle cells will run out of glycogen and ATP, won't get enough O2, and will have a very difficult time processing the excess lactate produced during the previous interval.

Subsequent to the initial 500, the heart rate response will drive the HR up much faster, and that, combined with muscular exhaustion, will result in a continuous decrease in wattage after the first few 500s 'at AT'.

How is it possible for you to be so incredibly ignorant? Do you practice it? Or are you not capable of learning basic exercise physiology?

There is no such thing as AT, so you're blabbing on about a concept that doesn't exist.

[bloomp]

rangerboy - you dope, AT is measured w pulse but occurs at the muscular level, and more specifically at the cellular level. It is NOT POSSIBLE to do 20 500s at a HR that peaks at AT at the end of each with a 500m paddle and still produce any splits worthy of considering as a basis for a 2k because the muscle cells will run out of glycogen and ATP, won't get enough O2, and will have a very difficult time processing the excess lactate produced during the previous interval.

Subsequent to the initial 500, the heart rate response will drive the HR up much faster, and that, combined with muscular exhaustion, will result in a continuous decrease in wattage after the first few 500s 'at AT'.

How is it possible for you to be so incredibly ignorant? Do you practice it? Or are you not capable of learning basic exercise physiology?

There is no such thing as AT, so you're blabbing on about a concept that doesn't exist.

Right, this all coming from the gentleman who believes vaccines are detrimental to an individual's health.

What makes you think that such a 'threshold' doesn't exist, Rupp?

[johnlvs2run]

vaccines are detrimental to an individual's health.

Not only detrimental, they are extremely dangerous.

[mikvan52]

I AGREE that ranger and I are silly old men.

You're embarrassing yourself debating with this clown and don't seem to realize it.

John:

Good point.
I'll attempt, yet again, to follow Cit's and your advice ... and give this whole thing a break...

[bloomp]

vaccines are detrimental to an individual's health.

Not only detrimental, they are extremely dangerous.

Ah, yes they've only stopped the spread of how many diseases? And I'd like to see your evidence of "vaccines cause _____".

Insert favorite debilitating condition. Rupp, do you pray to the same god that the Westboro Baptist Church does? That's the vibe you're giving off (based off your illogical views on vaccination, abortion, and science in general).

Back to the physiology, what makes you think that an 'anaerobic threshold' does not exist? It's simply the point when the body produces more acid than it can transport/neutralize/excrete. You do accept the facts that a) muscles will produce acid when utilized and b) the body can only handle x amount of acid before it begins to accumulate. The amount of acid produced depends on the availability of oxygen, fuels available, and the demands on the muscle. So even doing a light UT2 piece will produce lactic acid - your body just can cycle it out and prevent any detrimental effects.

[johnlvs2run]

Ah, yes they've only stopped the spread of how many diseases?

Approximately..... none.

And I'd like to see your evidence of "vaccines cause _____".

Actually I believe you prefer to remain ignorant. So I will allow you to bask and rejoice in your ignorance.

[bloomp]

Ah, yes they've only stopped the spread of how many diseases?

Approximately..... none.

And I'd like to see your evidence of "vaccines cause _____".

Actually I believe you prefer to remain ignorant. So I will allow you to bask and rejoice in your ignorance.

And yet you still dodge actually answering ANY of my valid questions! I am asking because I am curious. Yet you refuse to attempt a response.

Why do you not even address the main focus of my posts? I am talking about proven exercise physiology. Don't make a claim then not even try to back it up.

[johnlvs2run]

And yet you still dodge actually answering ANY of my valid questions! I am asking because I am curious. Yet you refuse to attempt a response.

Why do you not even address the main focus of my posts? I am talking about proven exercise physiology. Don't make a claim then not even try to back it up.

Why should I enlighten when you insult out of ignorance while you ask.

To me, this says clearly that you wish to remain unenlightened.

[ranger]

BTW, a great training game that I am starting to play now, and will be playing from now on until WIRC 2011, is what might be called "aerobic 500s."
In a 2K, I think most of us would like to stay aerobic for about 500m.
So, if you wear a heart rate monitor and do 500s, a nice pace to find for training is just the pace that lets you get to the end of a 500m interval when your HR reaches your anaerobic threshold.
If you are careful not to go over your anaerobic threshold and you take pretty generous rest (e.g., paddle a 500m in between), you should be able to do these 500s for an hour and a half--20 x 500m.
This session is a good litmus test for your race pace, I think.
ranger

rangerboy - you dope, AT is measured w pulse but occurs at the muscular level, and more specifically at the cellular level. It is NOT POSSIBLE to do 20 500s at a HR that peaks at AT at the end of each with a 500m paddle and still produce any splits worthy of considering as a basis for a 2k because the muscle cells will run out of glycogen and ATP, won't get enough O2, and will have a very difficult time processing the excess lactate produced during the previous interval.

Subsequent to the initial 500, the heart rate response will drive the HR up much faster, and that, combined with muscular exhaustion, will result in a continuous decrease in wattage after the first few 500s 'at AT'.

How is it possible for you to be so incredibly ignorant? Do you practice it? Or are you not capable of learning basic exercise physiology?

Been there, done that.

So, saying that it is impossible is impossible.

You need to revise.

The trick is staying _out_ of the AT band.

You need to stay at to-end UT1.

I can row at top-end UT1 for 90min both my heart rate and the pace flat, steady state, so it is clear that lactate is _not_ building up quickly and severely.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, a great training game that I am starting to play now, and will be playing from now on until WIRC 2011, is what might be called "aerobic 500s."
In a 2K, I think most of us would like to stay aerobic for about 500m.
So, if you wear a heart rate monitor and do 500s, a nice pace to find for training is just the pace that lets you get to the end of a 500m interval when your HR reaches your anaerobic threshold.
If you are careful not to go over your anaerobic threshold and you take pretty generous rest (e.g., paddle a 500m in between), you should be able to do these 500s for an hour and a half--20 x 500m.
This session is a good litmus test for your race pace, I think.
ranger

rangerboy - you dope, AT is measured w pulse but occurs at the muscular level, and more specifically at the cellular level. It is NOT POSSIBLE to do 20 500s at a HR that peaks at AT at the end of each with a 500m paddle and still produce any splits worthy of considering as a basis for a 2k because the muscle cells will run out of glycogen and ATP, won't get enough O2, and will have a very difficult time processing the excess lactate produced during the previous interval.

Subsequent to the initial 500, the heart rate response will drive the HR up much faster, and that, combined with muscular exhaustion, will result in a continuous decrease in wattage after the first few 500s 'at AT'.

How is it possible for you to be so incredibly ignorant? Do you practice it? Or are you not capable of learning basic exercise physiology?

Clearly, you have to prepare for something like 20 x 500m at 2K by doing a lot of "threshold" distance rowing, with your HR at your anaerobic threshold, for me, 172 bpm.

This "threshold," top-end UT1 pace, is "base pace."

You should be able to do it for 90min, if you are completely trained up for it.

I think that PaulS is right to claim that base pace is done most efficiently at 10 MPS.

The base pace I am working with/toward right now is 1:43 @ 29 spm (11 SPI).

This is five seconds per 500m faster than my base pace back in 2003: 1:48.

1:43 @ 29 spm is Mike VB's 2K race pace.

Base pace is 2K + 10.

A HR that you can do continuously for 90 min, you can do sporadically for 90min.

So there is nothing impossible about 20 x 500m at 2K at all.

Yes, the higher pace on the 500s is stressful muscularly, but the intervals are only a minute and a half, and the stroking power you use on these 500s should be nothing more than you do in your distance rowing, a nice light stroke at a high rate.

I did these 500s at 40 spm back in 2003.

I'll now do them at 37 spm.

For 8 x 500m, you can raise the stroking power by an SPI and the rate by an spm and go about three seconds per 500m faster, 2K -3.

This is AN, and yes, you do indeed build up lactic acid with these.

Not so with the 20 x 500m session, though.

That's what makes it so useful.

It is a top-end UT1 workout, not even AT, much less TR, or AN.

It's just another sort of "rowing with breaks."

ranger

[lancs]

Ah, yes they've only stopped the spread of how many diseases?

Approximately..... none.

Oh dear. I had forgotten the level of moron that we are dealing with in Rupp..

[snowleopard]

There is no such thing as AT, so you're blabbing on about a concept that doesn't exist.

So you would argue that blood lactate levels don't change in a predictable way during exercise. Is that correct?