The Two Types of Training

[mikvan52]

Mike--

You seem to think that 5K is something distinct from 2K.

Yes. You are right. 2k is not the same as 5k in my book.

Why does Michael Sevigny beat Mahe Drysdale at the HOCR when Sevigny cannot hold a candle to Drysdale at 2k? Why has Drysdale not won the HOCR... It may be because he's best suited for the 2k...

Elsewhere in sport:
On the track... Do the same athletes win at 1500 m and 5k?.... (rhetorical question)

(We've been over this many, many times)

As for formulae ("is done at")...
Please provide comprehensive data and provide margins of error...

[mikvan52]

You don't get better by racing.

You don't even get good by racing.

Do you mean on the erg only or in all sports?

Aside:
Interesting, too, that Ursula James-Grobler got the 2k WR (Open lwts) w/o either prior racing or training on the erg...... hmmmmmm

(I do not count three erg sessions "training"!)
She trained OTW and cross trained x/c skiing etc...

[johnlvs2run]

out of the bow four I think I compared favorably when looking at watts/kilo.

Haven't you been paying attention?? to the experts on this thread, who say that watts per kilo don't matter!!!

It's how much blubber is on your body that counts!

And being tall is not an advantage!

[snowleopard]

It's how much blubber is on your body that counts!

Guess what SFB, you can be tall, heavy and lean. There are people a foot taller than you with lower bodyfat

[NavigationHazard]

Funny thing too about watts per kilo. Some allegedly "fat" people are a hell of a lot faster than skinny muscle-free runts with delusions of weight-adjusted grandeur. True, some of my weight is because my cojones weigh 30 kilos. Each.

6 x 500m/1' rest, done as a rate ladder: r20/22/24/26/28/30. Results:



01] 1:37.2 r20 381w 19.0 spi
02] 1:35.5 r23 402w 17.4 spi
03] 1:34.3 r24 417w 17.3 spi
04] 1:35.2 r25 406w 16.2 spi left off a stroke at the end and cost myself
05] 1:33.8 r27 424w 15.7 spi
06] 1:30.3 r31 475w 15.3 spi

3000m (9:26.3 total work time), 1:34.3 average pace, 416w r25. Not at all bad for this kind of rate ladder. I'm especially fond of the last rep.... Back OTW again tomorrow.

[johnlvs2run]

you can be tall, heavy and lean

Yes, you sure can.

[johnlvs2run]

Funny thing too about watts per kilo. Some allegedly "fat" people are a hell of a lot faster than skinny muscle-free runts

A 1:37 at 6' 6 and 260 pounds is amazing.

[jliddil]

Funny thing too about watts per kilo. Some allegedly "fat" people are a hell of a lot faster than skinny muscle-free runts with delusions of weight-adjusted grandeur. T

That me. 178lbs 6'5" Heavy weight delusional. Can barely break 7;55 for 2K.

[PaulH]

That's a lot of replies to my point, ranger, without actually replying to my point: You claim that you and Mike row a 5k at the same pace and HR, except Mike actually rows it, whereas you have the intent of rowing it. Do you see the difference?

[BrianStaff]

Today on my bike...I saw 228bpm - I see what ranger sees

[ranger]

Mike--

You seem to think that 5K is something distinct from 2K.

Yes. You are right. 2k is not the same as 5k in my book.

Why does Michael Sevigny beat Mahe Drysdale at the HOCR when Sevigny cannot hold a candle to Drysdale at 2k? Why has Drysdale not won the HOCR... It may be because he's best suited for the 2k...

Elsewhere in sport:
On the track... Do the same athletes win at 1500 m and 5k?.... (rhetorical question)

(We've been over this many, many times)

As for formulae ("is done at")...
Please provide comprehensive data and provide margins of error...

For all serious ergers with extensive and balanced training, 5K is done at about 2K + 5, +/- 1.

You can't improve your 2K without improving your 5K, and vice versa.

Brian Bailey's 60s lwt WR for 5K is 17:26/1:44.5; his 2K WR is 6:42/1:40.5.

So when he was 60, his spread was 4 seconds per 500m.

He was a 5K guy on the track, so his 5K is very good, given his 2K.

He is still probably more of a runner than a rower.

Back in 2003, my 2K was 1:37; my 5K was 1:43.

So my spread was 6 seconds per 500.

I am the opposite.

I am more of rower than a runner.

I have quite a bit of core and upper body power, in addition to what I can do with my legs.

You can surprise us all, I guess.

But I don't think you are going to do 5K @ 1:39 if you do 2K @ 1:42.5.



To do 5K at 1:39, you'll have to do 2K in and around 1:34.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, a great training game that I am starting to play now, and will be playing from now on until WIRC 2011, is what might be called "aerobic 500s."

In a 2K, I think most of us would like to stay aerobic for about 500m.

So, if you wear a heart rate monitor and do 500s, a nice pace to find for training is just the pace that lets you get to the end of a 500m interval when your HR reaches your anaerobic threshold.

If you are careful not to go over your anaerobic threshold and you take pretty generous rest (e.g., paddle a 500m in between), you should be able to do these 500s for an hour and a half--20 x 500m.

This session is a good litmus test for your race pace, I think.

20 x 500m (paddle a 500m in between) is done at 2K.

Over the next month or so, I think I will get to 20 x 500m @ 1:34, rating about 37 spm.

That's about 11.5 SPI

If Mike VB did 500s at 1:42.5, his 2K race pace, I think he would find that his HR would reach his anaerobic threshold, 143 bpm, at the end of each 500m interval.

ranger

[ranger]

Today on my bike...I saw 228bpm - I see what ranger sees

Cool.

If your maxHR is 228 bpm, then your anaerobic threshold should be about 185 bpm.

Can you row bike for a couple of hours with a HR of 185 bpm?

Try it and see what happens.

What is your resting HR?

ranger

[ranger]

That's a lot of replies to my point, ranger, without actually replying to my point: You claim that you and Mike row a 5k at the same pace and HR, except Mike actually rows it, whereas you have the intent of rowing it. Do you see the difference?

My 5K pb, actually rowed, is 17:10.

My project has been to get (considerably) better.

We'll soon see if I have been successful.

The 60s lwt WR for 5K is 17:26.

ranger

[ranger]

Interesting, too, that Ursula James-Grobler got the 2k WR (Open lwts) w/o either prior racing or training on the erg...... hmmmmmm

But, equally interesting, you didn't.

Your WIRC time was eight seconds slower than the _60s_ lwt WR, a dozen seconds slower than the 55s lwt WR.

Eight seconds is a _huge_ margin in a 2K.

A dozen seconds is ridiculous.

Seven boat lengths?

ranger