The Two Types of Training

[Nosmo]

Which just goes to show that you can be one of the best ergers age group ergers in the world and still say incredibly stupid and obviously false things.

I think it shows that Rich is the one who knows what he's doing.

He may know what he is doing. But he still says incredibly stupid and obviously false things. He may knowingly say such things just to get a reaction and what he says and believes has no relation to what he does.

Or he may merely be incredibly talented and manage to get fast times on the basis of raw talent.

Furthermore the vast majority of time he races very poorly--goes out too fast blows up and does not finish. Some one who does this mostly likely does not know what they are doing. Seriously John, what percentage of races have you failed to finish?

[Nosmo]

It truly is a shame he cannot understand what is the truth about how training works - if what he's done so far this season is simply off his feeble-minded understanding of it, then he could do a lot more with proper coaching, technique and training.

Really?

Ranger I did not write that. And I wouldn't have. Please change the attribution to bloop. Thanks.

[bloomp]

It truly is a shame he cannot understand what is the truth about how training works - if what he's done so far this season is simply off his feeble-minded understanding of it, then he could do a lot more with proper coaching, technique and training.

Really?

Ranger I did not write that. And I wouldn't have. Please change the attribution to bloop. Thanks.

Clearly the nutty professor just lumps all that dare oppose him into one category - the "nosmo".

"And they called me MAD! They all laughed at me! But I'll show them... I'll show them all!"

[Citroen]

It truly is a shame he cannot understand what is the truth about how training works - if what he's done so far this season is simply off his feeble-minded understanding of it, then he could do a lot more with proper coaching, technique and training.

Really?

Ranger I did not write that. And I wouldn't have. Please change the attribution to bloop. [sic] Thanks.

Fixed. If he just quotes everyone with a "Naysayer" designation we'll avoid the problem of his inability to attribute quotes to the relevant author. In the dim and distant past he was banned from the UK forum for a week for that habit (he was still spouting the same crap about training, pace, stroke rate, SPI and HR at that time).

[johnlvs2run]

the vast majority of time he races very poorly--goes out too fast blows up and does not finish. Some one who does this mostly likely does not know what they are doing. Seriously John, what percentage of races have you failed to finish?

I disagree with this. Olympic weightlifters often miss lifts in competition, in fact it is more common to miss than to complete all six lifts perfectly. They even miss lifts in practice. There were quite a few time trials that I did not finish when rowing, and I probably rowed more per time than at least 99.9% of rowers. I ran 36 marathons including 31 miles twice and 50 miles once, but there were a few races not completed. I don't really recall them except one where I was clear in 2nd place at 17 miles and hopped in a car, mostly because the air was bad and I'd not planned to run it all anyway.

At the Olympics and World Champs, most of the runners out in the rounds jog around and do not run anywhere close to even their season bests, which IMO is ridiculous. But Rich is 1st in the 2k for his division for the year and that is what counts. From his perspective, as he has said, he is chasing times, and the competitions don't mean anything. So be it. That is what he wants to do.

[ranger]

If you can post us a shot of a 5k completed @ 1:44 I'd be most impressed.

Except you won't, because you can't..

I wouldn't.

My pb is 1:43; my target, 1:39.

ranger

[JimR]

If you can post us a shot of a 5k completed @ 1:44 I'd be most impressed.

Except you won't, because you can't..

I wouldn't.

My pb is 1:43; my target, 1:39.

ranger

So a person with a target of 1:39 and a pb of 1:43 can't do 1:44 ... but they go on and on about how much better they are now.

No wonder everyone is confused!

JimR

[johnlvs2run]

An average healthy person's heart rate drops about 20 beats in a minute and the rates of athletes ... (drop) by 50 beats in a minute

Mine drops very quickly from training. After an hour race on the race where I sprinted in hard, my heart rate after 1 minute was back under 100 bpm, so it must have dropped at least 70 beats.

I have noticed that after longer runs at max that it takes longer to come down than after shorter runs to max, for example it comes down faster after a hard 1 mile to max then after a hard 13 miles to max.

[hjs]

An average healthy person's heart rate drops about 20 beats in a minute and the rates of athletes ... (drop) by 50 beats in a minute

Mine drops very quickly from training. After an hour race on the race where I sprinted in hard, my heart rate after 1 minute was back under 100 bpm, so it must have dropped at least 70 beats.

I have noticed that after longer runs at max that it takes longer to come down than after shorter runs to max, for example it comes down faster after a hard 1 mile to max then after a hard 13 miles to max.

Yep, a short hard burst will get the hart pumping fast, but will not really fatique you, but a long hard race ceartainly will, your hartrate will drop a lot slower then and it can take hours to reach resting levels again.
And no doubt your hart is very well trained.

[Byron Drachman]

Ranger wrote:

Technique is now _very_ good, and great training for my OTW efforts.
I am now squaring up at the catch, rolling up on my toes, sitting up tall and straight, sequencing my levers, accelerating the handle, finishing completely, recovering my hands quickly, sweeping the handle across my flat knees before breaking my legs and going down the slide for the next catch.

Squaring up at the catch on your ergometer?

Byron - good 'catch'. rangerboy actually thinks he can 'square up' on an erg? to quote the lamented rumsfeld, there are things he doesn't know that he doesn't know...

Hi Leadville,

Also did you notice that he said squaring at the catch instead of squaring before the catch? You've seen his hilarious flip-catch in his OTW videos. The funny thing is that I can feather on my C2 because I made a special handle.

added later: Here is a link to a photo of my feathering handle. The wooden grips rotate and click when the blades are fully squared or fully feathered. The little yellow blades turn so I can watch the blades. I thought it would help training the fingers to do the feathering properly. I found doing the more gradual roll-up and getting squared before the catch much easier OTW after practicing that on the erg.

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s59/ ... t_C2_2.jpg

Byron

Byron - nice custom work.

FYI - found an interesting study (it's around here somewhere...) that purported to determine the affect on boat speed of squaring the blades in a headwind. I can't remember the specifics, but the impact was significant - on the order of better than a boat length in a stiff breeze. of course, one should always square the blades BEFORE the catch...unless one is rowing on rangerwater...

Hi Leadville,
I agree that rolling up too early is also a mistake, especially into a headwind. I think your book puts it nicely:
from page 15:

When your hands cross over your ankles, begin to roll the oar handles up into your hands. The blades should be completely rolled up before you are at the catch, so all you have to do is raise the hands slightly to have a perfect catch.

Ranger would do well to memorize that and try to put it into practice.

My own experience is that it is possible to do a late squaring when into a headwind without making a mess of the bladework if you have already the ability to do the gradual rollup, do square blade rowing, and other drills.

I predict that at the end of April we will hear that none of the timed pieces on the C2 were necessary because our hero is now sculling like a champion OTW.

[lancs]

My pb is 1:43; my target, 1:39.

Though as you've demonstrated with your racing, your 2k has declined from 6.28 or so to 6.41. I'd be therefore interested in seeing what your 5k has declined to over the same period..

[Nosmo]

Olympic weightlifters

Entirely different type of sport with different rules and goals. Not relevant.

there were a few races not completed.

Exactly, a "few."

People who know how to race, know how fast they can go and pace themselves accordingly. You may take a chance and go out a bit fast, say 1 second too fast, then you may blow and loose a few seconds. But if you are only capable of a 6:40 and think you can do a 6:32 or a 6:28 and set out at a pace to achieve then that is just foolish.

But I admit I may be wrong. Ranger may know what he is doing. However he still repeatedly says the same ridiculous things over and over.

[ranger]

Furthermore the vast majority of time he races very poorly--goes out too fast blows up and does not finish. Some one who does this mostly likely does not know what they are doing.

No, I race just fine when I prepare for it.

Lately, I haven't been preparing to race.

I have been trying to get better.

Completely different matter.

Amazingly, even so, over the last two years, I have by far the best 55s lwt 2K times--without even preparing to race.

Lately, I have just been doing the races to participate, not to row my best.

The irregular racing is due to lack of preparation.

I can't row my best until I complete my training.

I am racing without doing any anaerobic work whatsoever, in fact, until lately, without even any threshold work (top-end UT1).

That's crazy.

When done well, the 2K is wildly anaerobic.

You can't do your best 2K without preparing for this anaerobic stress with anaerobic intervals--lots of them.

In 2003, I prepared to race.

Result:

6:36, 6:33, 6:30, 6:32, 6:29, 6:28, 6:32

That's the kind of thing I do when I am prepared.

These 2003 races differed by only 1 second per 500m (faster or slower) from 6:32/1:38.

Three of the rows were WRs.

Three were golds at all of the major championships: WIRC, BIRC, EIRC.

Almost all of them were done with flat splits (I pushed the first 1K on the two 6:32s, just to see whether I could go a little faster; I couldn't).

No handle downs at all.

Even when I blew up, I finished strong.

Why?

I was prepared.

I did boatloads of anaerobic intervals before I raced.

ranger

[ranger]

People who know how to race, know how fast they can go and pace themselves accordingly. You may take a chance and go out a bit fast, say 1 second too fast, then you may blow and loose a few seconds. But if you are only capable of a 6:40 and think you can do a 6:32 or a 6:28 and set out at a pace to achieve then that is just foolish.

None of this is relevant to me.

No one races at WR levels without preparing for it.

There are no parallels.

ranger

[ranger]

My pb is 1:43; my target, 1:39.

Though as you've demonstrated with your racing, your 2k has declined from 6.28 or so to 6.41. I'd be therefore interested in seeing what your 5k has declined to over the same period..

No, my 2K hasn't declined at all.

I haven't raced a 2K, fully prepared, since 2003.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

In 2003, before sharpening, I also pulled 6:40.

Then, after I sharpened, I pulled 6:28.

I get about a dozen seconds over 2K from hard sharpening.

ranger