C2 Erg Prototype

[Rockin Roland]

I've used both the Oartec Slider & new Rowperfect ergs and my reference to them having a more appealing gruntier and macho sound than the C2 ergs shouldn't be misconstrued as just being louder. It's not the noise that they make but the quality of the tone. The C2 ergs sound cheap and tinny which after a while, although not loud enough to penetrate walls, can be very annoying to listem to. If you try the other two ergs you'll quickly understand where I'm coming from. The sound of the Rowperfect on Youtube is very misleading because of the way it was recorded. It sounds much loaded on Youtube than actually using it live.

[c2jonw]

The protoype uses the same chain, flywheel and flywheel cover so it's noise level is on a par with the D&E. One of the many goals of subsequent model upgrades has been to reduce noise level, which we have been succesful at. It's always risky because sound is part of the feedback you get from erging and for some people more is better (any aging baby boomer Harley owners out there?) For the most part though, for clubs, apartments, home use, hospitals, etc. the wish is for quieter. One can always crank up the stereo or put baseball cards in the spokes. I know someone who has a Tesla all electric roadster- 0 to 60 in under 4 seconds and it's practically silent. Sort of a disturbing incongruity there...... C2JonW

[bloomp]

Jon,

Any word on whether the PM4 will get a software update, or if the entire performance monitor will be changed? I think there could be a few good changes to the display:

Be able to customize the numbers shown;
Have average SPM (down to the tenths digit);
Be able to program a set number of intervals, or at least see the rest between each one instead of a total rest;
Display pace down to a tenth of a second (after all, average pace is shown to the tenths digit);

I had a few other ideas, I'll try to write if they come back into my head.

[Citroen]

Jon,

Any word on whether the PM4 will get a software update, or if the entire performance monitor will be changed? I think there could be a few good changes to the display:

I had a few other ideas, I'll try to write if they come back into my head.

You should probably start a new thread. It looks like you're starting to design the PM4+1.

[c2jonw]

Of course we're always considering changes and improvements to the current PM, and sometimes these can be rolled into a PM4 upgrade. At some point a list of desired changes justifies a completely new moniter- maybe a new case design, display or connectivity drives the project in that direction. Right now we don't have a new monitor on the horizon- PM4 has a fair amount of room to expand functionality, and if the dynamic erg were to become a product tomorrow it would likely have the option of a PM3 or PM4. C2JonW

[Rockin Roland]

Right now we don't have a new monitor on the horizon- PM4 has a fair amount of room to expand functionality, and if the dynamic erg were to become a product tomorrow it would likely have the option of a PM3 or PM4. C2JonW

What about Average power per heart beat plus with Distance per Stroke like on the new Rowperfect monitor, which together provide an excellent indicator for when your overtraining and likely to cause injury/sickness. Their monitor also displays heart rate directly from the chest belt without the need for wires like the PM4. But the Rowperfect monitor has gone a step further with the heart rate data collected to show more information on the monitor. The PM4's heart rate data is very basic in comparison and needs to be expanded to stay in touch with what the other erg manufacturers are offering.

[Carl Watts]

Right now we don't have a new monitor on the horizon- PM4 has a fair amount of room to expand functionality, and if the dynamic erg were to become a product tomorrow it would likely have the option of a PM3 or PM4. C2JonW

What about Average power per heart beat plus with Distance per Stroke like on the new Rowperfect monitor, which together provide an excellent indicator for when your overtraining and likely to cause injury/sickness. Their monitor also displays heart rate directly from the chest belt without the need for wires like the PM4. But the Rowperfect monitor has gone a step further with the heart rate data collected to show more information on the monitor. The PM4's heart rate data is very basic in comparison and needs to be expanded to stay in touch with what the other erg manufacturers are offering.

If you want DPS - Distance per stroke then it's available on RowPro. Also it is good for analysis in comparing one row of the same distance or time with another. The PM4 is wireless when it comes to heart rate with a Suunto belt unless your using a Polar chest belt, in which case you just need the receiver as well under your rower but it is still wireless. I find the HR information in the PM3 memory okay, it gives you your average for the splits and an average for the whole row if you want better analysis then you can get some software.You also get graphics and online rowing on a full size colour monitor that a PM cannot compete with. The PM3 and PM4 are great monitors and spit out all the necessary data a PC needs to ba able to process and give you extra information if you want it.

[c2jonw]

A couple of corrections- as Carl points out the PM4 has a wireless HR option with the Suunto/ant capabilities, which also enables PM4-PM4 communication for wireless racing. The belt is included when you purchase an erg with PM4. PM4 will also work with the older Polar HR but as on the old system the additionla wired receiver is needed. Also the HR results on the log card for each split indicate the HR at the end of the split, not the average for the split. The HR listed with the total workout at the top of the screen is the average of the split HRs.
Rowpro offers a lot of information and they continue to improve. Certainly all of the various data options are on the table when we consider upgrades to the PM, and the challenge is achieving a balance between providing simple, relevant information in an easy to use format, versus overcomplication. Just because something can be done doesn't necessarily mean it should be done. C2JonW

[jliddil]

the challenge is achieving a balance between providing simple, relevant information in an easy to use format, versus overcomplication. Just because something can be done doesn't necessarily mean it should be done. C2JonW

I would agree. You turn the PM into something a computer geek can only understand. Or people who have two monitors on their rower. Rowpro is a good basic way to analyze data. I think the market for those who want such detailed analysis is small compared to the overall user community for C2 and Rowpro. An option I'm also looking at now is a Polar RS400 since it will log HR/second. Then I'll time sync with Rowpro data. The Polar software also has a bunch of analytical capabilities for training progress/overtraining.

As a device gets more complex if it breaks you may lose all functionality. Look at cars today. One bad computer chip and your car won't start because a feedback loop is now open.

I think Rowpro data alone can be mined quite a bit beyond what the basic training algorithm it comes with provides.
Just my $0.02

[doccottle]

Am most interested in any news, regarding the C2 dynamic erg going into production.

[Couloirman]

Any updates for us?

[Bob S.]

Am most interested in any news, regarding the C2 dynamic erg going into production.

When they were showing the prototype at Boston in February, I was told that the estimate was about 2 years.

Bob S.

[doccottle]

Gahhh...

[c2jonw]

I can't speculate on a date at this time. The nature of a project like this is that goals are often moving targets, requiring updates with each step and revelation along the way. At this time we're keeping the project moving, with another one-off prototype in the works right now, which could be followed soon by a few "not-for-sale" versions for public use and comments. C2JonW

[Carl Watts]

I would be more interested in if the newer model gave you what I would call an "unfair advantage".

People I have spoken to already state that their times are slightly better on a Model D than on a Model C so if the newer model gives you an edge then it makes all the older models kind of obsolete if you like to be even the slightest bit compeditive.

Don't rush that new model if you ask me ! 2 years sounds great and gives me time to save up the $$$ !