The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

A FM at 1:48 predicts at 6:16 2K.

I think I might even be on track to pull a FM, 1:46 @ 26 spm.

That would be amazing.

ranger

[snowleopard]

It's _very_ soft.

Can't be. The greatest erger that ever lived still can't break it after six years of preparation. And that's despite saying for the past several years that 4 x 2K @ 1:38 was "a lock", "coming right up", "screenshot tomorrow", etc.

Roy Brook had the job done and dusted inside 12 months. Now that's class

[I see what you did there ranger, moving the page on with a meaningless post. You'll have to fill this one now too ]

[ranger]

still can't break it after six years of preparation

Fully trained, I can pull 6:38 with one arm.

I am not training to pull 6:38.

I am training to pull 6:16.

Different matter entirely.

To pull a lwt 6:16 at 60, you have to do massive quantities of quality work; you have to build a huge training foundation; you have to transform your technique and stroking power; and you need to be over the top in your distance/UT1/"threshold" rowing.

Challenging stuff.

Nonetheless, training is coming along _very_ well.

ranger

[ausrwr]

Rich: you expect to improve your all out 2k of 6:41, to a 6:18, in 6 weeks time?

What all out 2K?

In my training, I am up to distance trials.

I have yet to do AT, TR, and AN training--at all.

Distance trials are predictive, so they will tell me where I am at in my 2K.

So are all workouts at AT, TR, and AN.

A 2K is only predictive of what you are capable of if you are fully prepared for it.

I will only be fully prepared for a 2K when I have completed distance trials and my AT, TR, and AN training.

ranger

Prof: do NOT attribute quotes to me that aren't mine.

Simple.

[snowleopard]

still can't break it after six years of preparation

I can pull 6:38 with one arm.

There's only one thing you can pull with one arm, Dick

[ranger]

Roy Brook had the job done and dusted inside 12 months. That's class.

Yes, thanks for the compliment.

When my goals were limited to just race preparation, like Roy's in 2006, I did the same thing.

Started aftrer the 50s lwt WR in February of 2002.

Broke the WR in February of 2003.

Broke it again in October of 2003.

Broke it again in November of 2003.

At my best that year, I pulled a lwt 6:28, ten seconds faster than Roy in 2006.

Race preparation is no trick at all.

You just row fast.

The trick is how to get better, once your times have plateaued.

Just rowing fast never makes you any better.

It just gets you ready to race.

Roy has never gotten a whit better.

And the race preparation he learned how to do in order to set the 55s WR was not his own at all.

Every step was at the direction of a coach, PaulS.

Mindless affair.

It will be interesting if Roy takes up the next challenge--training to get better.

I don't suspect he'll be interested, but who knows, he might surprise us.

If he takes up this challenge, he will have to spend his training time in wildly different ways than he has in the past.

ranger

[snowleopard]

Roy has never gotten a whit better.

He doesn't need to. Despite all your seedy basement sweating he's still faster than you

Incidentally, did I see you wearing an All-In-One in that last video of yours? They are only for OTW rowers you know

[ranger]

Roy has never gotten a whit better.

He doesn't need to. Despite all your seedy basement sweating he's still faster than you

Incidentally, did I see you wearing an All-In-One in that last video of yours? They are only for OTW rowers you know

I hope Roy takes up the challenge of getting better.

IF he doesn't his WR doesn't have a hope in hell of surviving, and he doesn't have a chance of meeting the standards in the next age bracket.

His choice.

He pulled 6:43 in 2008, 6:45 in 2009, and didn't race at all this year, although we might have expected 6:47, given his regular pattern of decline.

Next year, if he doesn't change his training, the expectation will be 6:49.

By the time he is 60, the next, year, the expectation will be 6:51.

That's seven seconds off of the 60s lwt WR, even as it stands now.

If I pull 6:16 next year, as I think I might, it will be 33 seconds off the 60s lwt WR.

Roy's 6:38 at 55 stands half way between the present 50s lwt WR of 6:25 and that 6:51, which points up the softness of his 55s standard.

Half way between 6:25 and 6:42 is 6:33.5, not 6:38.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

How would you characterize...Jim Castellan...

As not among the erging WR-holders?
ranger

Personally I'd characterize Jim as the current 65-69 MHW 2k WR holder on the erg. C2 seems to agree. He also holds the 60-69 MHW 500m record and 1k record. Though you seem to think otherwise, he also was/is an OTW rower of some considerable distinction. A Penn alum now rowing for Fairmont in Philadelphia, he was on the US 1975 Pan Am Games and 1976 Olympic teams as the alternate ....

[ranger]

How would you characterize...Jim Castellan...

As not among the erging WR-holders?
ranger

Personally I'd characterize Jim as the current 65-69 MHW 2k WR holder on the erg. C2 seems to agree. He also holds the 60-69 MHW 500m record and 1k record. Though you seem to think otherwise, he also was/is an OTW rower of some considerable distinction. A Penn alum now rowing for Fairmont in Philadelphia, he was on the US 1975 Pan Am Games and 1976 Olympic teams as the alternate ....

Ah.

So, among the ten 40s - 60s male record holders, Jim and Dick are/were OTW rowers of some note. The other eight are/were not, although they may have rowed OTW some, or even a lot.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

So?

Of the 8 women (JVB and Ingrid Petersen are there twice each), Carol Skricki, Lisa Schlenker, Joan van Blom, and Susan Hooten all were Olympic team members.

In case you've forgotten, your original, hyperbolic assertion was "I've also noticed that _none_ of the best senior and veteran ergers are prominent OTW rowers."

Going back and editing it to conform to reality doesn't make it any less silly when you posted it.

You were wrong about 50% of the women and 20% of the men.

[ranger]

So?

Of the 8 women (JVB and Ingrid Petersen are there twice each), Carol Skricki, Lisa Schlenker, Joan van Blom, and Susan Hooten all were Olympic team members.

In case you've forgotten, your original, hyperbolic assertion was "I've also noticed that _none_ of the best senior and veteran ergers are prominent OTW rowers."

Going back and editing it to conform to reality doesn't make it any less silly when you posted it.

You were wrong about 50% of the women and 20% of the men.

Sorry, I was thinking about the males, and I noted that Dick Cashin was an exception.

I didn't know about Jim.

ranger

[whp4]

Roy has never gotten a whit better.

He doesn't need to. Despite all your seedy basement sweating he's still faster than you

Incidentally, did I see you wearing an All-In-One in that last video of yours? They are only for OTW rowers you know

I hope Roy takes up the challenge of getting better.

IF he doesn't his WR doesn't have a hope in hell of surviving, and he doesn't have a chance of meeting the standards in the next age bracket.

Well, you're the expert on short-lived WRs, aren't you? Say, isn't it true that you've owed Henry $1000 for losing your bet roughly twice as long as your best WR stood? Discuss...

If I pull 6:16 next year, as I think I might, it will be 33 seconds off the 60s lwt WR.

Wait, you've been telling us you were going to pull 6:16 this year, why are you changing your schedule? You aren't going to make Byron repeat his virtuoso performance on your "I think I can, I think I can" riffs again, are you? You don't seem to be very good at planning! Or planing, watching your OTW videos

Why do you think you have any shot whatsoever at catching up with Eskild's performances, when he has demonstrated athletic performance far beyond what you could manage when you were young and fit, much less as a broken-down old crank who can't even complete a 2k at weight in competition on any given Sunday?

[ranger]

Why do you think you have any shot whatsoever at catching up with Eskild's performances

I have just been looking for a dozen seconds over 2K, after many years of consistent work, starting from a point where I was a total beginner and didn't know how to use my legs.

I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

What other people do has nothing to do with me.

No, I don't have any chance of rowing 6:02, but if Eskild is now rowing 6:16, that's a different matter.

Whether I catch him or not depends much more on him than me.

Sure, if he keeps slowing down by over a second a year, I might catch him, if I am indeed significantly better now, as I think I am.

But that's up to him.

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

If I pull 6:16, as I think I might, I catch Eskild, right now, even though he is only thirty-seven.

So true, and if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump its ass a-hoppin'