The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

It's you who returns to talking about OTW all the time (AS YOU ALREADY HAVE WITH YOUR POST TO lancs).

You missed the irony in my post to Lancs--altogether.

I don't care a whit about the fact that Lancs is not a OTW rower.

I was mimicking your voice, just to underline its obtuseness, irrelevance, and ill will.

It's a nice accomplishment in itself to pull a lightweight sub-6:30 on the erg and win gold at BIRC.

Doesn't have anything to do, necessarily, with your experience and competence in a boat.

Lancs can pull a lightweight 1:23 500m on the erg.

Pretty impressive stuff in itself, on its own merits.

Waaaay out of your reach.

In your dreams.

ranger

[ranger]

How would you characterize Dick Dressigacker?
How would you characterize John Van Blom?
How would you characterize Bob Spousta,?
Jim Castellan, Mike Tebay?

As not among the erging WR-holders?

So, like you.

Pretty good ergers, but not at all the best.

ranger

[ranger]

Quick little drive.

Big recovery.

A little work.

Then lots of rest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6wF4tsGNYw

You're driving too hard, your balance is off and you're resting too much.

Maybe you should watch the Danish videos when you row, and do the same things that they do.

Different strokes for different folks.

To do well in rowing, you need to take advantage of your physical assets while minimizing your weaknesses.

To do something exceptional, you usually need to be creative/original, too.

When innovation, the unprecedented, is the issue, those who just mimic others don't usually get very far.

After I am done with rowing, I would be happy to see the Danish lightweights, like Eskild, as they age, best my times.

If they do, so be it.

ranger

[ranger]

Maybe you should watch the Danish videos when you row, and do the same things that they do.

There are some great 60-year-old Danish lightweights that I should watch in order to learn how to row well and therefore go fast on the erg?

Who?

If there were such folks, I would be _very_ interested in how they row.

You are a 60s lwt who rows like the Danes--meticulously.

But it doesn't seem to help you much.

You are slow as slow as molasses.

If I pull 6:16, as I think I might, I catch Eskild, right now, even though he is only thirty-seven.

When he is 40, it looks as though Eskild will even have a hard time catching Mike Caviston, who doesn't row anything like a Danish lightweight.

ranger

[ranger]

Have you ever noticed that all the open category WRs on the erg are held by OTW rowers ?

Yes, I've noticed that.

I've also noticed that _none_ of the best senior and veteran ergers are prominent OTW rowers.

Interesting split.

I might add Paul Siebach to that list.

He's not an OTW rower.

He's a triathaloner.

Interes

None? You've got to be kidding. Carie Graves. Joan van Blom. Dick Cashin. Susan Hooten. Ian McNuff. Jim Castellan. Lisa Schlenker....

Yes, among males, Dick Cashin is certainly the exception.

It will be interesting to see whether he can best Paul Hendershott's 60s hwt WR, though.

I think it will be a dead heat.

ranger

[ranger]

The FM stroke in the video, rating 24 spm, not even at full slide, my HR riding at 150 bpm, is as fast as Mike VB can row for 5K.

Maybe you should wait until you've actually gone through 42,195 meters with that stroke in a sitting before you call it your FM stroke. You might also try demonstrating that you can row 5k (with any of your ridiculous "strokes") as fast as MvB.

My old 5K pb is 17:10, my old FM pb 2:40, my old 2K pb 6:27.5.

I am quite a bit better than that now, as I will demonstrate shortly.

Mike has never come anywhere near any of these times, either the facts of the past or the potential of the present.

ranger

[mikvan52]

...at your peril

No, to my benefit, satisfaction, and enjoyment.

I am not you.

We all can only do what we can do.

We have different backgrounds and capacities and therefore different potentials.

So be it.

Those differences just need to be appreciated and respected.

Other than Dick Cashin, _none_ of the present senior and veteran WR-holders in the male ranks are OTW rowers of any note, if OTW rowers at all.

And many of them row with techniques that have no resemblance to a good OTW stroke, designed to move a boat.

Ergs don't float.

An erg is a piece of exercise equipment, little more.

Those who do well on it display a certain sort of physical prowess for their age and weight, little else.

Erging is a fun and healthful game to play, though.

So why not?

It is also a nice introduction to some of the enjoyment and challenges of OTW rowing, while at the same time being no equivalent or substitute for the real thing.

If you don't like erging, and don't respect it, then just leave it alone.

No reason to parade your antipathy here among those who do.

ranger

You are inconsistent in your line of argument: It is you who has all these different strokes, one of which is particularly suited for the water. That is your assessment of yourself, Rich, here on these pages on this thread.

It is you, my friend, who has the antipathy to those who row on the water and those who challenges in the haughty way you present what you consider optimum erg training. You have held up your particular brand of training as transferrable to excellence on the water. Don't change the subject with flimsy reactionary arguments.

The erg was originally created to help OTW rowers winter train. That it has grown into other uses is great in my opinion. It is great for very many reasons.

vignette:
The boat shed in the Craftsbury boat shed has an upstairs work out room... It is full of cross training machines and implements. These include the Concept 2 Indoor Rower and Ski Erg and weights, etc. (get it?)

Rich:
It is telling that you do not want to have any challenges to the abrupt way you present your mysterious training. What do you want, a throne?

Tell us again, King RIch: How is it that you can recognize a good OTW stroke? You row alone, slowly, and have not been coached. You have no positive feedback yet of respectable reported time trials.
Tell us again, KR: Why exclude women from your list of erg WR holders?
Tell us again: Why limit your good (erg) rower list to older people?

Here: I'll help you, It's so you can limit the discussion to those who are most like yourself.
A 59 year old midweight who does not race on the water.

Read what Grobler (forgive me: a young women open WR holder) said about training for the NEW WR:

Subject: The Two Types of Training

Well, you can always read about what you can't participate in:
eg:
http://www.worldrowing.com/display/modu ... wid=324297
(OTW mentioned)

Mike,

I clicked on one of the links on that page and came up with this:

http://www.worldrowing.com/display/modu ... wid=324802

Note particularly these quotes from the interview with Ursula:

Grobler talks to World Rowing about her record breaking erg piece and her world of rowing:

World Rowing: Do you use the ergo much in training?
Ursula Grobler: I have only rowed six times on the Concept2 erg since September.

and:

WR: What was your stroke rate during the piece?
UG: I don’t remember, I was in so much pain.

WR: What did you feel like at the end?
UG: I was happy it was over. This erg hurts my ribs and messes up my timing at the catch and my coordination on the water.

I think this forum would be interested in this info even though the (erg) WR holder is young and a woman

[ranger]

I think this forum would be interested in this info

Sure, lots of people would be interested.

But no reason to air these things here.

Go to the OTW thread and air it in its appropriate context.

Almost all of the best senior and veteran male ergers don't row OTW at all, and never have.

So they are emphatically _not_ interested.

I don't have any background in OTW rowing, either.

I am just starting to learn.

My focus has been on the erg.

So your comments here are obtuse and misplaced.

They are certainly not irrelevant, though.

Just take them elsewhere.

That I am just a slow novice OTW with much to learn doesn't detract from what I might accomplish on the erg at all, as it doesn't for Paul Siebach, Nik Fleming, Andy Ripley, Paul Hendershott, Roy Brook, Tore Foss, Mike Caviston, Dennis Hastings, Jon Bone, and a host of other people.

ranger

[mikvan52]

I think this forum would be interested in this info

Sure, lots of people would be interested.

But no reason to air these things here.

Go to the OTW thread and air it in its appropriate context.

Almost all of the best senior and veteran male ergers don't row OTW at all, and never have.

So they are emphatically _not_ interested.

I don't have any background in OTW rowing, either.

I am just starting to learn.

My focus has been on the erg.

So your comments here are obtuse and misplaced.

They are certainly not irrelevant, though.

Just take them elsewhere.

ranger

What do you want, RIch, pity?

You have not just begun to learn sculling... You've sculled (by your statement) 5 million meters. That is more than I have.
It is not your perogative to direct others to take their comments elsewhere. Particularly when it's you who broached the subject of how good the "two types of training" are for OTW.

I also contest your definition of "best erg rowers".. You confine to WR holders only. I find that odd.
You consider yourself the best don't you?
You're not a WR holder.

Am I confusing the issue?

IMHO: Anyone in the above 95 percentile is among the best in my book. Indeed, Rich, you are among the best. (no irony)

[ranger]

You won gold at BIRC, pulling sub-6:30 for 2K as a lightweight.

But can you row?

No.

Next question..

Can you skateboard with the best, too?

What good is your erging if you can't skateboard?



If you can't earn the respect of skateboarders with your erging, why bother to erg at all?



ranger

[ranger]

It is not your perogative to direct others to take their comments elsewhere.

Take your comments elsewhere.



Free speech.

Gotta love it.

ranger

[ranger]

You consider yourself the best don't you?

"Consider"?

Well, this year (and last year) among 55s lwts, no "considering" is needed.

It is just a fact.

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (55–59) | Current 2010 Season

1 Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.4 RACE
2 Michael van Beuren 57 Hartland VT USA 6:47.6 IND_V
3 Jonathan Rich 56 Winter Park FL USA 6:52.3 RACE
4 Eric Winterbottom 58 Bodytalk GBR 7:01.9 RACE
5 Gary Passler 55 amesbury MA USA 7:05.0 RACE
6 David Sutkowy 56 manlius NY USA 7:05.4 RACE
6 Rolf Meek 59 Oslo NOR 7:05.4 IND
8 John Busk 56 Slangerup DEN 7:07.6 IND
9 Ernest Cook 55 Brookline MA USA 7:08.3 RACE
10 Daniel Devez 56 Port-Marly Rc FRA 7:08.5 RACE

Happy to have you change that, though.

It only takes 6-7 minutes to do so.



More broadly, if I pull a lightweight 6:16 2K at some point, I think I might legitimately claim that as the best senior/veteran 2K on the erg of all time, but that is still just a potential, however likely or unlikely, rather than any sort of fact.

And it certainly would have no status relative to the great rows on the erg in the Open division.

It would just be an old fart doing surprisingly well, given his massive disability due to age.



ranger

[snowleopard]

You consider yourself the best don't you?

"Consider"?

You aren't the best 55s lwt ranger. You had a couple of good rows. Neither of them were good enough to beat Roy Brook's WR.

Roy Brook is still the best.

[PaulH]

Take your comments elsewhere.



Free speech.

Gotta love it.

ranger

But you don't have free speech, do you? You've repeatedly told us that you're censored on this board; that's why you were unable to say the thing that you just said and I just quoted.

Back to Byron's point - you've been predicting a 1:48 paced marathon for 3.5 years now, why is it going to happen very soon, when all the other times it was going to happen very soon it didn't happen at all?

[ranger]

You consider yourself the best don't you?

"Consider"?

You aren't the best 55s lwt ranger. You had a couple of good rows. Neither of them were good enough to beat Roy Brook's WR.

Roy Brook is still the best.

Not this year.

Not last year.

I am.

And even without preparing for it.

UT1 rows?

We'll see about that WR, too.

It's _very_ soft.

I now have the rate up nicely and am getting into my distance rowing.

That's the meat of the issue.

I will try to do trials at all of the distances before the end of April.

Distance trials are 2K predictors.

So we will soon see.

Now, four years later, Roy can't come anywhere near the 6:38 he pulled in 2006.

If he rows next year, unless he does something _very_ different with his training, he will struggle to pull under 6:50.

ranger