The Two Types of Training

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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Byron Drachman
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by Byron Drachman » March 24th, 2010, 12:13 pm

I only thought one or two people might be interested in this one. People are used to SI unites with obscure the fundamental physics. But if you do things in cgs (centimeters-grams-seconds) it is clearer. Note that resistance times capacitance is a time. Capacitances is strictly a geometric construct--the area of the plates divided by the separation (times a unit-less dielectric constant). So in cgs capacitance is measured in centimeters. Since resistance times capacitance is a time, then resistance must be seconds/cm. Electrical resistance is the inverse of speed. So one could express their erg pace in ohms.
Hi Nosmo,
Nicely done. I confess I was stumped. I didn't think of a simple RC circuit as the crucial step. A friend of mine in electrical engineering had a sticker on his door with the large omega (symbol for Ohms) and caption on the sticker said: It's not just a good idea, it's the law.
Byron

snowleopard
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by snowleopard » March 24th, 2010, 12:24 pm

ranger wrote:Well, if, starting from four seconds below the existing WR for 2K, the "tweaking" of my form on the erg which I have done over the last few years produces a six seconds per 500m improvement in my distance racing and a three second improvement in my 2K racing, even though I am now eight years older, I don't really care what effect it has on my OTW rowing.
Anyone know what language this is written in?

ranger
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 24th, 2010, 12:38 pm

Training is necessarily hypothetical, rather than factual.

When you train, you try to develop the capacities, fitness, and skills necessary to meet your (hoped for, hypothetical) target paces/times.

No, you don't meet your (hoped for, hypothetical) targets until you have developed those capacities, that fitness, and those skills.

But it is the (hoped for, hypothetical) targets that govern your training, that specify you what you have to do.

Your (hoped for, hypothetical) targets tell you what capacities, fitness, and skills you need to develop to be successful.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on March 24th, 2010, 12:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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hjs
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by hjs » March 24th, 2010, 12:39 pm

ranger wrote:
whp4 wrote:
ranger wrote: That will be a nice legacy to leave from my decade or so of erging before I throw in the towel
Ah, now it all makes sense -- you've been training to throw in the towel
Yep.

After I reach my goals on the erg, I will switch my focus to OTW rowing.

ranger

That is very good news for the fish around Ann Harbour :lol:

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Byron Drachman
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by Byron Drachman » March 24th, 2010, 12:44 pm

snowleopard wrote:
ranger wrote:Well, if, starting from four seconds below the existing WR for 2K, the "tweaking" of my form on the erg which I have done over the last few years produces a six seconds per 500m improvement in my distance racing and a three second improvement in my 2K racing, even though I am now eight years older, I don't really care what effect it has on my OTW rowing.
Anyone know what language this is written in?
That is a much easier question than Nosmo's. The answer is Ranger-speak. It is a difficult language to master. It is replete with false friends and Malapropisms so the inexperienced often don't get the translation to ordinary English correct. Dougie and Nav are both qualified as translators.

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 24th, 2010, 12:48 pm

Byron Drachman wrote:
snowleopard wrote:
ranger wrote:Well, if, starting from four seconds below the existing WR for 2K, the "tweaking" of my form on the erg which I have done over the last few years produces a six seconds per 500m improvement in my distance racing and a three second improvement in my 2K racing, even though I am now eight years older, I don't really care what effect it has on my OTW rowing.
Anyone know what language this is written in?
That is a much easier question than Nosmo's. The answer is Ranger-speak. It is a difficult language to master. It is replete with false friends and Malapropisms so the inexperienced often don't get the translation to ordinary English correct. Dougie and Nav are both qualified as translators.
No need for a translation, Bryon.

The erg is a truth machine.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 24th, 2010, 12:48 pm

Byron Drachman wrote:
snowleopard wrote:
ranger wrote:Well, if, starting from four seconds below the existing WR for 2K, the "tweaking" of my form on the erg which I have done over the last few years produces a six seconds per 500m improvement in my distance racing and a three second improvement in my 2K racing, even though I am now eight years older, I don't really care what effect it has on my OTW rowing.
Anyone know what language this is written in?
That is a much easier question than Nosmo's. The answer is Ranger-speak. It is a difficult language to master. It is replete with false friends and Malapropisms so the inexperienced often don't get the translation to ordinary English correct. Dougie and Nav are both qualified as translators.
No need for a translation, Bryon.

The erg is a truth machine.

This is the truth so far.

By the end of April, we will have the _whole_ truth in all of the races, including 2K.

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (55–59) | Current 2010 Season

1 Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.4 RACE
2 Michael van Beuren 57 Hartland VT USA 6:47.6 IND_V
3 Jonathan Rich 56 Winter Park FL USA 6:52.3 RACE
4 Eric Winterbottom 58 Bodytalk GBR 7:01.9 RACE
5 Gary Passler 55 amesbury MA USA 7:05.0 RACE
6 David Sutkowy 56 manlius NY USA 7:05.4 RACE
6 Rolf Meek 59 Oslo NOR 7:05.4 IND
8 John Busk 56 Slangerup DEN 7:07.6 IND
9 Ernest Cook 55 Brookline MA USA 7:08.3 RACE
10 Daniel Devez 56 Port-Marly Rc FRA 7:08.5 RACE

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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chgoss
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by chgoss » March 24th, 2010, 1:03 pm

ranger wrote:Well, if, starting from four seconds below the existing WR for 2K, the "tweaking" of my form on the erg which I have done over the last few years produces a six seconds per 500m improvement in my distance racing and a three second improvement in my 2K racing, even though I am now eight years older, I don't really care what effect it has on my OTW rowing.
ranger wrote: By the end of April, we will have the _whole_ truth in all of the races, including 2K.
...
Rich: you expect to improve your all out 2k of 6:41, to a 6:18, in 6 weeks time?
a 23 second improvement accomplished over a 6 week time span. (Note, I'm not referring to your fly-and-die other attempts.. I'm referring to your one evenly paced best-your-going-to-do race)

Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument. Self-deception involves convincing oneself of a truth (or lack of truth) so that one does not reveal any self-knowledge of the deception.

Self-deception The act of fooling oneself, of willfully not accepting the obvious

Self-deception a misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it
52 M 6'2" 200 lbs 2k-7:03.9
1 Corinthians 15:3-8

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mikvan52
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by mikvan52 » March 24th, 2010, 1:07 pm

This seems to be the time to get back to serious razzing B) :!:

So,.. Rich.. (the man who put the "eff" in efficiency and effectiveness)

Classic! "Training is necessarily hypothetical, rather than factual." :D
& ! ........"After I reach my goals on the erg" ....Rich, is one of these goals a 6:16 2k on the erg? :shock:
& !!........"No one is even in sight of my 2Ks this year" + you are "right around" Rocket Roy's WR :lol: :lol:


the _eff-er_ wrote: Well, if....


If the Detroit Free Press were still on its toes it would indeed report:
" No large fish kills anticipated for many years." :P (cub reporter: hjs)

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ausrwr » March 24th, 2010, 1:22 pm

ranger wrote:Here's my FM stroke.

11.7 SPI

Relaxing stuff.

Huge ratio.

Quick little drive.

Big recovery.

A little work.

Then lots of rest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6wF4tsGNYw

ranger
Rich, that'd better not be your on-water stroke.
Jerk with the arms, then get the back and legs on.
Arms come forward, up and over the knees.
Back lunges into the catch, then repeat.

Translated to OTW:
Start with a really heavy catch, where your arms will blow up after 250.
Hands rising up and down over knees causes blades to slam onto the water on each recovery.
Lunging into the catch slams the stern into the water, increasing the decrease of speed of the boat into the catch.

NFI. Absolutely none.
Rich Cureton. 7:02 at BIRC. But "much better than that now". Yeah, right.

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 24th, 2010, 3:18 pm

auswr wrote:Rich: you expect to improve your all out 2k of 6:41, to a 6:18, in 6 weeks time?
What all out 2K?

In my training, I am up to distance trials.

I have yet to do AT, TR, and AN training--at all.

Distance trials are predictive, so they will tell me where I am at in my 2K.

So are all workouts at AT, TR, and AN.

A 2K is only predictive of what you are capable of if you are fully prepared for it.

I will only be fully prepared for a 2K when I have completed distance trials and my AT, TR, and AN training.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 24th, 2010, 3:24 pm

auswr wrote:Rich, that'd better not be your on-water stroke.
OTW, i will do what it takes to move a boat.

On the erg, this stroke is great.

To start off, I think I'll do a FM at 1:48.

That's the Open lightweight WR.

A FM at 1:48 predicts a 6:16 2K.

Then I''ll move on to the other distance races.

A FM at 1:48 predicts a HM at 1:45, 60min at 1:44, 10K at 1:42, 30min at 1:41, 6K at 1:40, and 5K at 1:39.

I would be happy with that for my distance trials.

Then it would be on to some hard anaerobic training--AT, TR, AN--in preparation for a quality 2K.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on March 24th, 2010, 3:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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mikvan52
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by mikvan52 » March 24th, 2010, 3:26 pm

Remember everyone (repeat after ranger)

" :the purpose of training is to be able to predict: "
.
:roll:
.
IOW most specifically not to do

What happened to February's "hard sharpening"? :P

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 24th, 2010, 3:31 pm

mikvan52 wrote:Remember everyone (repeat after ranger)

"the purpose of training is to be able to predict: "
The purpose of training is to develop the capacities, skills, and fitness you need to reach your target paces.

On that score, I am doing just fine.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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mikvan52
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by mikvan52 » March 24th, 2010, 3:34 pm

auswr wrote:Rich, that'd better not be your on-water stroke.
answered with
ranger wrote:OTW, i will do what it takes to move a boat.

Are you going to ab-row the boat? :D

You might be interested: There was this guy on the CT river(for real) who installed an erg type set-up in his single so he could chain yank and face the bow.
I saw him w/the contraption. He's gone on to his maker now... Do you want me to see if I can find such a craft for your coming visit?

" erg, erg, erg, erg your boat
gently down the stream
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily
Life is but a dream."


Nice meter, btw. Just like your drive to recovery (the words "erg" and merrily) :D

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